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I see some interesting potential in it. Of course the biggest downside is range, but its comparable to the Immolator/Flamer Razorback in that regard. Plus you can give it a hull multi-melta, which makes it more versatile. Some potential applications-

-Darting in and getting that one last wound on a MC. 2+ to wound is pretty good. Just going in an casuing one wound with this vehicle isn't worth it, because whatever you are spraying with bugspray is just gonna rip your tank open like a can opener next turn. But if you can get that one wound that'll kill it, it might be worth it.

-High toughness 3+ save units. These units tend to be expensive in armies and give the Banewolf the potential to quickly justify the 130 points. Wraithguard, I believe fall into this category (they only have a 3+ save, right?).

-Tough units that rely heavily on coversaves. Units that just plain rely on coversaves (scout type units, for example) are better dealth with by plain ole heavy flamers/Hellhound. The Banewolf can virtually guarantee wounds on higher toughness models.

Its kind of a situational vehicle, but I see it having the potential to be very fun. Something tells me in (particularly casual) games, its the kind of vehicle, like a Vindicator, that creates a big psychological presence on the battlefield. Plus you can run them in squadrons, the weapon doesn't hurt itself and it lets you pile on wounds.

Also note that because the chem cannon has no strength value, you can move 12" and fire both the chem cannon and your hull-mounted flamer in the same turn.

I've had experience playing against banewolves, but I can't really say how effective they are because I used all necessary means to lock them down and keep them from coming anywhere near me for the entire game. They did a great job of drawing fire away from other units.

never been really sold on banewolves not a big hellhound/variant fan anyways. However, I can imagine a squadron of banewolves that outflank with Creed would be really awesome.

It's a good MEQ killer. Personally I would deploy one behind cover, move it 18" on turn 1 and pop smoke. Many marine players will panic when they see one and dump everything they have into it. AV12 isn't bad if it has a cover save.

I consider it a great variant of the Hellhound, although I'm puzzled why anyone would want to add a hull multi-melta to it

I use the Hellhound often, since as a fast vehicle it's great for darting down the side of the board to hit softer targets with the inferno cannon. But I like to swtich to the Bane Wolf if I'm facing 3+ saves or if I'm expecting infantry outflankers/deepstrikers. It's damage output can be tremendous thanks to the main weapon being a defensive weapon. With a hull heavy flamer this means it can move 12" and lay down Both templates, probably horribly crippling a squad in the process (depending on your target).

Adding a hull Multi-Melta would give it great flexibility, the ability to engage both the most heavily armoured targets and the least heavily armoured targets.

I've had them outflank into my DZ and really make my life difficult.

They just completely disrespect any kind of infantry that's not a TEQ. I think that's why there's an option for a multi-melta... To get those juicy Space Marines out of their Rhinos!

Only faced em once and it didn't do squat (went for my 2+ cover scouts who ended up losing 1 all game ) but got intercepted by my reserved LRR redeemer with fleeting termies (lost none all game). In the end that guard army overaal didnt do much though (1 scout, 9 marines, 2 assault marines, 3 vanguard and wound off Shrike while I killed 50 guardsmen, Platoon command, Company command, 10 vets, valk, 9 stormies, 2 sentinels, Leman Russ, Commisar lord, Techie and would have been tabled if we played anoter turn), He had a very bad day, and should not have left me with a row of charges going from one flank to the other (those stormtroopers really ae bad at rooting out bolster defenses marines . Overall if they reach their target they'll be devastaiting but if they dont then they're neutered very easily.

Nurglitch wrote:Adding a hull Multi-Melta would give it great flexibility, the ability to engage both the most heavily armoured targets and the least heavily armoured targets.

I have to disagree. BS3 is just too unreliable for me to justify those 15 points and it doesn't complement the vehicles basic role. If it were a free swap for the heavy bolter it would make for an interesting choice (focus vs versatility). As it is now, you're paying points for an unreliable upgrade while you can double the hits it makes on its favourite target (infantry) for free. That's a no-contest for me.

Now, a multi-melta on the Devil Dog, that I can agree on

I think the Banewolf is a great tank, that unfortunately competes with Vendettas in the Fast Attack Slot.

I'm finding more and more that if you take Vendettas, you need to take three and they need to be in separate squadrons.

I've faced the Banewolf on several occasions, either they draw a hell of a lot of fire off the rest of the army, or they chew through everything in range of the template.

Against MEQ I'd label them a standard, but outside of the power armoured gitz, Vendettas are far superior.

When I do use them it works one of two ways:

1. My opponent doesn't realize what it is. I zip it up and unload on some unsuspecting squad. After it lays waste to whatever it was I shot at my enemy hoses it down with everything left in the army. It dies.

2. My opponent realizes what it is and hoses it down with everything in his army. It dies.

Maybe taking them in pairs is the trick but it seems to die pretty quickly. AV12 is still AV 12 and everything from Thunderfire Cannons to Lootas and Scatter Lasers can do something to it. One game last weekend I had Tellion pop it with a Rending Sniper round.

They make a fantastic counter assault unit, and with the MM they can also shoot as the enemy approaches.

And as had been said, outflanking them with Creed is really powerful.

I frequently run a banewolf, in fact it's part of my standard list. I use the hull flamer, because like someone mentioned you can drive up and use both the flamer and the chemcannon.

It's an absolut beast at wrecking large units with decent toughness; things that normally wouldn't fall victim to regular flamers. Space marines, Orks, Tyranids... All of them have been taken down by the boatload by it!

hate them, you have to target them as otherwise your marines will die! autocannon havocs was my initial answer

O'shovah wrote:Only faced em once and it didn't do squat (went for my 2+ cover scouts who ended up losing 1 all game ).

You've been playing this wrong then. Template weapons ignore cover, those scouts should have been toast.

I think he ment that the banewolf didn't even get to the scouts in time to kill any of them

dumplingman wrote:never been really sold on banewolves not a big hellhound/variant fan anyways. However, I can imagine a squadron of banewolves that outflank with Creed would be really awesome.

This is a really good combination. It avoids the Banewolves' biggest weakness that is short range on their weaponry. This allows you to put the vehicle in an effective position in your opponent's backfield and start toasting enemy units while limiting the amount of return fire they see.

They'll probably still die, but they will force your opponent to dedicate a disproportionate amount of fire on them to prevent them from driving down their line toasting a unit per turn.

unbeliever87 wrote:

O'shovah wrote:Only faced em once and it didn't do squat (went for my 2+ cover scouts who ended up losing 1 all game ).

You've been playing this wrong then. Template weapons ignore cover, those scouts should have been toast.

it went fo them for that reason but was destroyed before getting there.

Using Creed to give them outflank is a great idea, particularly since you could run a squadron of 3 of them that come barreling out of a table edge. With an Astropath, you can re-roll the reserves and table edge rolls helping to ensure they end up where you want them. Infantry on foot, like Dev Squads/Longfangs/etc would be susceptible. You could tank shock to help bunch up their models if you know they can't hurt you in Death or Glory, to make it easier to fry models.

There was a similar tactic someone had propsed, using Devil Dogs (jokingly referred to as the 'Doggy-style' maneuver).

Depending on the opponent's deployment, it has the potential to give him lots of problems, because 2+ tanks with flamer templates that nuke MEQs on a 2+ is gonna be hard to ignore, particularly when they jump right in the opponent's face.

They compliment Vet melta squads and Leman Russ variants well, having one vehicle pop a transport and the Banewolf fry the Heavy Infantry inside.

They form yet another resource Guard possess for depriving an opponent coversaves. A great anti 'MEQ in area terrain' weapon.

As someone pointed out (that I had forgotten for a while) giving them a heavy flamer means TWO flamer templates. Even Against TEQs this is going to be potent because by bombarding them with wounds- they will roll a one eventually here or there.

EDIT: Oh yeah, one final thing- they are very easy to convert from existing Chimeras. This is something that sold me on the Fast Tanks- you can cost-effectively make a few of them. Vendettas/Valks are cool models, but considerably pricier to buy.

Be VERY careful about using the Heavy Flamer when you shoot the chem-cannon.

A savvy opponent will use the wound allocation rules to stack as many AP3 wounds as possible on as few models as possible, and then take saves against the HF wounds.

In many occasions, you're better off not using the HF and the Chem Cannon at the same time.

Saldiven wrote:Be VERY careful about using the Heavy Flamer when you shoot the chem-cannon.

A savvy opponent will use the wound allocation rules to stack as many AP3 wounds as possible on as few models as possible, and then take saves against the HF wounds.

In many occasions, you're better off not using the HF and the Chem Cannon at the same time.

I don't understand. If I fired the Chemcannon, then the heavy flamer, wouldn't he have to tally up the wounds in order? IE 5 chemcannon wounds (no armor saves for MEQs) followed by 2 Hvy Flamer wounds= 7 wounds total, only 2 of which allow armor saves?

No. That is not how wound allocation works.

Further, there is no "order" of shooting for any single unit. All shooting is resolved simultaneously. You should be keeping track of how many different types of wounds your unit inflicts, and then your opponent should allocate them all to differently equipped model groups before rolling his saves.

Only use a HF on the Banewolf if you are fighting 4+ or worse save armies. It makes 3+ armor save armies smile because they can allocate wounds to give themselves more armor saves.

I've run creed with 3 bane wolves a bunch of times.

Remember that Creed gives scout, so you can out flank or scout them. IF you have first turn, scout is usually better.

With scout and fast vehicle, your opponent will crap themselves when you torch and expensive unit right of the bat. I think they really work well with melta vets in scouting valks.

They are amazing! That said 3 are often difficult to maneuver around terrain. I've actually started playing with the 2 bane wolves and a devil dog or hell hound.

I find you just want to stay at range sometimes. Or 2 tanks clogs up frontage and the other tank shoots over the top.

All in all I don;t really use them as much any more those. 3 of them is 400 ish points plus the points for creed... They usually don;t make that many points back up, but they are such a huge distraction, they usually go a long way towards winning the game for you.

How odd, I was trying to think out the 'savvy' allocation and I see now how a player could keep a number of men alive. But I also see how my BW could could use the HF and Chem on a unit of termies as they get 2+ save and lump as many wounds on as possible. Thanks to the OP and Reecius, sourclams for lending me insight on my own Banewolf usage.