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My brother and I played a game a few days ago, and we figured that we should see if we're playing the armour facing rule the same as everyone else.

Situation 1: A unit with two Lascannons wants to fire at the Battlewagon marked with a green arrow in this image:


Should their shots hit front armour or side armour? The Lascannons seem to have a perfect view of the Wagon's side armour, but also seem to be in the vehicle's front armour arc, as shown in this overhead shot:



Situation 2: A Leman Russ Battle Tank wants to fire at the Battlewagon marked with a blue arrow in this image:


Should it's shot hit front armour or side armour? The Battle Cannon can see the entirety of the Wagon's side armour, but would be in the vehicle's front armour arc, as shown in this overhead shot:


If you were one of the two players in this game, which facing do you think that the shots should hit in each case?

Measure a straight line from the gun to the target vehicle.

Wherever that line hits is what I've always went by.

In the case of split-fire units we just used different color dice.

I can't vote because the pictures were taken at an angle & I'd need a direct overhead to provide an accurate statement.

Edit:
A friend of mine uses a laser-pointer with a tip that projects a line across the table.

Guys, there are rules for what arc you are in, and neither of you has it right.

You Draw a straight line from the back corner of the tank to the opposite front corner, then you do the same for the other corners, that's your arc.

Therefore most vehicles will have smaller front arcs than side arcs.

There's a handy diagram in the rulebook, showing how it works with a predator.

Where things get tricky is for vehicles that are not rectangular.

willydstyle wrote:Guys, there are rules for what arc you are in, and neither of you has it right.

You Draw a straight line from the back corner of the tank to the opposite front corner, then you do the same for the other corners, that's your arc.

Therefore most vehicles will have smaller front arcs than side arcs.

There's a handy diagram in the rulebook, showing how it works with a predator.

Where things get tricky is for vehicles that are not rectangular.

I hadn't noticed that...even so, the first example is definitely in the front arc of the vehicle, although more than 50% of the facing is covered, so the vehicle would be obscured for that shot.


With the 2nd example, if you look at the arc properly (not as shown in the example), it looks as though the Leman Russ is actually hitting the side arc (so I voted wrong on the 2nd example).

I agree, the first example appears to be firing at an obscured front arc, so the tank gets a cover save, even though the entirety of the side is visible.

Yeah, it's a bit hard to tell for sure given the angle of the pic for the second.

The first is definitely an obscured shot on the front armour. The fact that you have a clearer view of the side armour doesn't matter... you would only be able to target the side if you couldn't see the front at all.

The second looks to be either an obscured front shot, or a clear side shot... depending on the exact angle.

willydstyle wrote:Guys, there are rules for what arc you are in, and neither of you has it right.

You Draw a straight line from the back corner of the tank to the opposite front corner, then you do the same for the other corners, that's your arc.

Therefore most vehicles will have smaller front arcs than side arcs.

There's a handy diagram in the rulebook, showing how it works with a predator.

Where things get tricky is for vehicles that are not rectangular.

This is the overhead diagram with the arcs drawn with that method. The angle's a little funny for the battlewagon marked in green but I think I got it about right.

With the re-marked pictures (excellent way to show the battlefield, BTW) it seems pretty clear that the lascannons have an obscured front shot, where the battlecannon has a clear side shot on the second battlewagon.

If you are in the front arc you are in the front arc, even if you an see the side or rear armor.
If the can't see the front arc then read page 62 of the BGB (bottom left paragraph)
If you can't see the facing of the arc your in you may take the shot against the facing of an arc you can see... but the opponent gets a 3+ cover save (due to the extreme angle of the shot and the likelihood it will bounce off or something)

So in your first situation you are in the front arc, but if you cannot see the front but can see the side, you may fire at that, but the wagons have an improved cover save.

The Russ example is a bit fuzzy to call here. The first example I think should be counted against front armour. If they are definitely in the front arc, even though they can't see the front and so would technically have to hit the vehicle on the side, the glancing angle would make it harder to penetrate.

Soup and a roll wrote:The first example I think should be counted against front armour. If they are definitely in the front arc, even though they can't see the front and so would technically have to hit the vehicle on the side, the glancing angle would make it harder to penetrate.

Page 62... If they are in the front arc but can't see the front but can see the side they take the shot at the side with a 3+ save on the wagon.

From what I've read it appears I was using the wrong weapon team for my vote on the Geen arrow tank. The 2nd set of pictures so how the arc works correctly so you can see the first weapon team is clearly in the front arc the 2nd Weapon team has one in each facing so resolve the shots individually one against the side the other against the obscured front.

Whilst the 2nd image pretty much shows cut and dried the Leman Russ is firing at the side armour.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:

This seems wrong, you go from the top/left/rear of the battlewagon, to the bottom/right/front of it, and similarly from the top/left/front to bottom/right/rear, you should really stick to a single vertical plane for the measurements (which is still imperfect given the angle of the shot, but more accurate than what you have presented), and either use only the top corners, or only the bottom corners (which isn't ideal since one is hidden). I think if you were to do it properly you would find both Lascannons in the side arc, although I'm not 100% sure.

edit: Hopefully this clarifies what I mean, box outlining 3D shape of battlewagon in red, new projected front armour arc in orange. To be fair the orange arc would be projected down a bit (since it is measured from the top of the tank) but I still feel both lascannons are firmly in the side arc.

i voted green wagon front and blue side, but I think in a game I'd roll a dice for the blue

dayve110 wrote:

Soup and a roll wrote:The first example I think should be counted against front armour. If they are definitely in the front arc, even though they can't see the front and so would technically have to hit the vehicle on the side, the glancing angle would make it harder to penetrate.

Page 62... If they are in the front arc but can't see the front but can see the side they take the shot at the side with a 3+ save on the wagon.

Thanks Dayve110. That also makes sense (and won't start an argument).

Interesting Drunkspleen. Now do a fully 3d animation!