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S'up WFB Dakka, lately I'd been thinkin' of startin' up an imperial guard army for 40k, but why am I telling you this? Well after realizing I was only actually attracted to the Imperial Guard because more units=more thought needed per turn and such. Now I took a glance at WFB quickly and suddenly realized "Oh hey, WFB actually involves alot of thought in regards to initial deployment, unit movement, and Dark Elves look neat." So anyways, while I continue to consider which game to get into, depends on the demographic of the FLGS, I was wondering if any Dark Elf players could give me some tips on how to build a list, field the army, and y'know all that jazz.

Thanks

Well, DE play really well as a MSU army, where each unit is specialized in what it does, but there is multiple units that fill the same role. As long as you don't spend to many points on one unit, you don't really care if you sacrifice it for a greater reward.

Dark elves have one of the more powerful shooting phase in terms of volume of fire in WHFB, but keep in mind for the most part it is just low strength fire that kills support units and average R&F guys. The shooting (unless you take bolt throwers) is generally not going to be able to take out the opponents tougher units.

Dark elf magic is really powerful, they are able to roll more dice than most of the other armies in the game, and they don't have casting limits and all of their lores are very offensive oriented. So if you like the idea of blasting your opponent with potent (but still random) power, DE are a great choice.

The combat units dark elfs bring to the table, while very strong, don't tend to do well in protracted combat. So it is very important to only commit to combats where you are confident that you can win easily, or if you don't break the opponent (or lose) that another unit is ready to provide support. There are a couple of "anvil" units available, but they are still t3 with a bad save, their anvil status comes from being stubborn or unbreakable.

The dark elves are able to bring quite a good selection of terror causing monsters. The hydra is a bargain (and really powerful), and the black dragon is very popular because of its power. The manticore is still very nasty, but is relatively easy to shoot down, so is a bit rarer.

Dark elves have very good mobile units. Dark riders are a faster than normal fast cav unit that can take a 24 inch range bow (most fast cav have short to very short range shooting), they also aren't bad on a flank charge, since they come with spears. Harpies are cheap disposable fliers that always do what you wanted them to do (draw attention, march block, war machine hunt, grab table quarters, die horribly so others may live etc). Cold one knights if run correctly are a very powerful and cheap knight unit. Stupidity is a concern with these guys, but at their cost and still decent LD, they are worthwhile. The dark pegasus is a great mount of a character who wants opperate independantly and still stay safe. (wizards on dark peg is a std unit selection)

The type of enemies that DE tend to do well against are: hordes, where they can use their speed to create local superiority. Other MSU unit armies (who really dislike volume of fire DE can bring) and armies have low toughness and/or bad armor. The armies that can give DE the most trouble are ones that bring high toughness and/or good armor. DE strength isn't generally very high, so they can have a bit of a rough time breaking through heavy infantry and heavy cav. (they still have ways around it, but it is much harder)

As for list building, since almost all DE units are usable, there is really no one set way to run them. I can't stress how important to keep the bloat out of units though. Run each unit as cheaply as you can and still have it fulfill its role.

Thank you, I found your post very helpful in getting a grasp of just how Dark Elves are supposed to be played. Though I have a question or two. The first one being is that you mentioned that they have trouble against heavy infantry and heavy cav, would you have any reccomendations of how this could be done...without losing?

In my mind I only have the idea that I just keep throwing units at them until they eventually kill everything or I whittle them down to nothing.

Sgt.Sunshine wrote:Thank you, I found your post very helpful in getting a grasp of just how Dark Elves are supposed to be played. Though I have a question or two. The first one being is that you mentioned that they have trouble against heavy infantry and heavy cav, would you have any reccomendations of how this could be done...without losing?

In my mind I only have the idea that I just keep throwing units at them until they eventually kill everything or I whittle them down to nothing.

Haha...well, against enemy heavy cav, if you're running a lvl 4 sorceress, you might take the Lore of Iron and get the number 6 spell. That wrecks high armor, high T units like nobody's business )

I...I think I need to buy the rulebook to even know what that means....

Against heavy calvary and infantry, I would do as you were thinking. Whittle them down. Use your speed to keep away and pepper them with fire or redirect and march block them so you get even more time to whittle. Then I would do the same as wood elves do and charge with multiple units in the flank or rear of course.

The most popular unit is an always strikes first (from magic banner) black guard. They are stubborn and have two attacks with str. 4. Their T and AS are not great, but at 7 wide and ASF, 14 str. 4 attacks should reduce the number of attacks coming your way.

Oh, speaking of units I've heard that the executioners and corsairs aren't all that great...also the Black Guard are a Rare unit right? I'm asking because at 2,000+ points I was thinking of just using Hydras in my rare slot @_@

Executioners are pretty much the worst unit in our book. Corsairs are suboptimal because the rest of our infantry options are better. Black Guard are Special, and while you can run double Hydra as your Rare selection in a 2k+ game you likely won't make too many friends and you'll often find that double Bolt Thrower and one Hydra gets better results while being more balance-friendly.

Oh I see, I also just realized I have the previous edition's codex...hmmm go figure. A shame about the executioners, their models look pretty nice.

Oh, for the Lord and Hero stuff would a High Sorceress accompained by two normal ones be a good set up? ._. Magic seems pretty important in Warhammer fantasy from what I know right now, or would it be better to balance it with some martial characters?

Magic is very 'Go large or go home' right now. If you bring a moderate amount of offensive magic, most lists bring enough magic defense to totally shut you down. If you bring no magic aside from bare necessity for defensive purposes, then all those points your opponent wasted on their own magic defense are points that you are using for more models.

If you do bring magic, Dark Elf magic can be very powerful and overwhelming. A Lv.4 with two Lv.2s is pretty standard magic-heavy for Dark Elves and can toss down a large amount of power dice each turn. The standard outfit for the Lv.4 is on a Pegasus with Focus Familiar. If you are thinking about getting this particular setup and don't like the current Morathi on Pegasus model (I know I don't) then you should wait for a little while for Raging Heroes to come out with their Pegasus: Click here for Preview! You'll have to scroll down just a bit, the Pegasus preview is below the Wood Spirit preview.

Wow that model is certainly...something o_o Not sure if I'd feel comfortable painting it though simply because I kind of suck at painting?

So is Dark Elf army playable without magic?

Yes, very. They have some powerful anti magic items, and their martial characters are very good if built correctly. In fact some of my largest massacres were from not using any magic and putting those points to use making the combat units and characters better. It is a very viable option.

Ah, okay I just wanted to make sure that Dark Elves aren't the type of army where you can only win using magic, or something like than. Now with most of my questions out of the way I guess I'll go pick up a codex and rulebook tomorrow and see if I can really wrap my head around this ruleset :U

One thing you'll probably find with Dark Elves is that every unit (except Executioners and to a lesser extent Corsairs) can be perfectly viable so long as your list is built to support or make use of it. If you want a blasty gunline army, you can do it. If you want a highly mobile harassment army, you can do it. Just avoid long, protracted battles and you're typically just fine.

Ah, now that's a playstyle I can dig. Careful commitment of troops and careful movement.

I am glad to get all of this advice as well. I am building the units that I like and was slightly worried that I would get rolled over in every game.

- Blackbone

A properly supported Executioner unit can do very well though, along with corsairs. Get a Cauldron of Blood in there and you have some stubborn executioners that you can bless with extra attacks that have killing blow. Or with corsairs give them the frenzy banner and killing blow blessing to get 15+ killing blow attacks. Dark Elves are all about how your units support each other and what role they are meant to take on.

If your seriously considering getting into Dark Elves you should go here and read up on some of the interesting and fun things we can do.

Hi, i don`t want to mess up your thread Sunshine, but i have just bought the battalion. Should i use my warriors as spearmen or shooters?

I personally went with making 10 into crossbowmen and 18 spearmen. Though I can't remember if they came with enough bits for that or if I had to use some extras I had.
Gives you a decent start to a spear block and a unit of crossbows this way.

As a Dark Elf newcomer myself, I'd love to see some sample lists here too!

Again: click here for all the info on Dark Elves you'd ever need.
Dark Elf forums, biggest on the net. Has tons of information on tactica, lists, compositions, how to use different units, etc...
You can't go wrong.

Heck, go to the WFB Army section of this forum, there are a couple dozen DE army lists posted there that I know of!

Yeah, you really don't need to look far for Dark Elf information, there's quite a few of us here. Just click on the WHFB Tactics, Army Lists, YMDC, etc. and specify Dark Elves. Further, I'm sure most of us are pretty PM friendly if you had specific questions that didn't fall into those areas.

Whats been said is right on the money.

What I love in particular now about Dark Elves is their variety and high mobility, the likes I only see in certain Cavalry only lists.

I'd like to throw in my two cents about our magic items. Oh man do we have some kick a$$ magic items! I'll highlight just a few.

Crimson Death - 25 pt. Weapon that always strikes at Strength 6 but requires 2 hands. It does not say any where about it being a great weapon so swing away at Initiative value!

Pendant of Khaeleth - 35 pt. aka Pedant. Freakin amazing 35 pt item! Basically the harder it gets hit, the more likely you'll live! Just watch out, it only works on attacks with a Strength value.

Armour of Eternal Servitude - 35 pt. Counts as Heavy Armour and Regeneration.

Black Staff - 55 pt, slap this on a lvl 4 and watch your opponent's jaw drop at all the power dice you get to roll when you can cast this...TWICE!

You want a nasty little killy lord? Lord with Crimson Death, Pendant, Regen Armour, Black Dragon!

Heck, the mundane gear on our characters is great! How many other foot characters can get a 2+ AS? Heavy armor gives 5+, Sea Dragon Cloak brings you to 4+ (3+vs. shooting), add a shield for the rest. Take a Dark Steed and Light Armor to break even on the save, and get the Steed's full 9" movement. Or sacrifice 1" for a 1+ AS. Take a Cold One and now you're looking at 0+ AS.

All of this without ever touching a magic item! We can have some of the best protected BSB in the game!

Vulcan wrote:Heck, the mundane gear on our characters is great! How many other foot characters can get a 2+ AS? Heavy armor gives 5+, Sea Dragon Cloak brings you to 4+ (3+vs. shooting), add a shield for the rest. Take a Dark Steed and Light Armor to break even on the save, and get the Steed's full 9" movement. Or sacrifice 1" for a 1+ AS. Take a Cold One and now you're looking at 0+ AS.

All of this without ever touching a magic item! We can have some of the best protected BSB in the game!

"Break even on the save"?

Wearing heavy armor does not slow down a mount any.

There's no point in taking a dark steed and light armor instead of a dark steed and heavy armor. They're both full 9" movement.

Yeah, that came up on a different thread. In a long-gone edition of WFB, there was a rule that heavy armor slowed down a model by 1". Somewhere along the line, the rule disappeared, but I never noticed...

Vulcan wrote:Yeah, that came up on a different thread. In a long-gone edition of WFB, there was a rule that heavy armor slowed down a model by 1". Somewhere along the line, the rule disappeared, but I never noticed...

Ah yeah, it's all good mate.

All you ever wanted to know about Dark Elves (and then some you didn't):
http://druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t=55572&start=0