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Hi all

Getting 8 more support squads, what is the best pick?
LasCannons or AutoCannon?

Got 1 Lascannon and 1 mortar team already
Can build:
4*3teams Lascannon/autocannons
and
4*3teams Misslelaunchers/mortars.

Thanks

If you have some autocannon stuff in your army already, lascannons. If you've got plenty of lascannons, autocannons. Diversity is good. Autocannons work better on some targets, lascannons better on others.

Be careful about investing too heavily in HWTs for long range support fire. Maybe you're playing 3k games and it doesn't matter, but in general mobile armies, being 2W models, and unmodifiable Ld7 makes these guys "not exceptionally great".

Where possible, I tend to favour Autocannon over Missile Launchers for versatility, as they can do more to threaten light vehicles, and what they lack in terms of blast templates, the higher strength and better AP tends to balance things out.

Plus, unlike the Lascannon, it's kind of hard for them to run out of decent targets to knack. Take too many Lascannons, and once you've swatted the enemy armour, they swiftly become fairly redundant, either lacking the rate of fire to take down swarms, or being a bit of a waste in general.

I also would like to echo sourlclams' sagely advice. Too many Heavy Weapons (whether Guard or no) swiftly fall into multiple redundancy, and are generally quite easily picked off by the opponent, being pricey models with little in terms of improved survival ability.

How is the AC more versatile then the ML? Sure you get two shots compared to the one but being able to choose which warhead to fire depending on the target has to count for something.

As for what to model use little magnets if you can. It gets weird when you're doing ML's but for AC's or LC's it works pretty well.

In guard, missile launcher, krak mode :
It is fairly good at removing MEQ dudes outside cover, but it will not do much that way during a battle.
I admit a very good point. it's that recently, this weapon got his juiciest target : tyranid warrior.
Overall it does not have a lot of ideal targets.

On frag' mode, it can prove somewhat efficient against ork hordes early in battle (when they are plenty of them). ML can put multiple hits on troops disembarking from a transport, provided that you have a nice LOS. Something that a good opponent will avoid by the way.
But the humble grenade-launchers and mortars offer that too, for less points.

Moreover, ML has a difficult task in 5ed against tanks. Autocannon is really better against rhinos and fast light vehicles.
This is a must-have, because you want these threats taken down immediately !
AV 12+ is better dealt by other weapons : melta, laser, heavy ordnance...
No vehicles ? No problem : you still have an amount of shots that is nice against hordes.
I will add that you dont pay for low AP, freqently wasted when MEQ get cover.
Finally AC are quite useful and cheap : ideal for guard.


Now, I summed some good/bad points regarding ML vs AC. But this will not make a huge difference in game. My final thoughts would be : forget about killing a lot with line squads. So, if you feel better with ML, go for them. I field some ML from time to time because they look cool and add diversity.

When it comes to general anti-infantry, I'd rather trust in my bajillion Lasguns standing in cover, rather than a few Frag templates floating around!

Plus, do not underestimate the sheer range of Autocannon. 48" is usually further than you might think when firing diagonally, which is lovely for mashing up side armour on anything that isn't a Heavy Tank!

Cool, thank you alöll for the advice.

If i got it right i get more autocannons then Lascannons
when it comes to ML or Mortar i try to have a 50/50 on them

A couple things about HWTs:

1.) Like others have said, they are only Ld7. There are a lot of things that can really foul them up Leadership-wise.

2.) They are T3 W2, So Str 6 hits will kill them very quickly. One assault cannon can wipe the whole squad out on 2+s.

They do have some advantages:

1.) They free up your platoon squads if you wanted to make them mechanized by consolodating your heavy weapons in a static unit and your special weapons in mobile units.

2.) Depending on how many platoons you field, you can take a ton of HWTs; realistically you're probably not going to be limited by the FOC to take as many as you have models for/want.

However, there are ways around these weaknesses, if you really want to make the most out of them. Situated in cover helps survivability, and having a Commisar Lord accompanying a Command Squad in a Chimera gives you a Ld bubble (measured from the chimera's hull) of 10 I believe, making it easier to get orders off.

Putting the heavy weapon squad in Chimera would dramatically improve their survivability. But you lose 1 turn of shooting.

Jerjare, your trick with comissar in Chimera does not work. Chimera rules specifically allow orders (and orders only) to be given from vehicle's hull. Special rules like those of lord comissar, not being shooting, nor orders, can't apply.

Ravajaxe wrote:Putting the heavy weapon squad in Chimera would dramatically improve their survivability. But you lose 1 turn of shooting.

Jerjare, your trick with comissar in Chimera does not work. Chimera rules specifically allow orders (and orders only) to be given from vehicle's hull. Special rules like those of lord comissar, not being shooting, nor orders, can't apply.

But I was told that abilities that affect models in a 'radius' around a model go by the transport, if the model creating the radius is in a transport. For the LD bubble, if the Comissar is in the transport, where would you measure from? From a practical perspective, the whole 'Command Vehicle' nature of the Chimera should work just as well with a Comissar barking out orders (or threats )

Overall I would say Autocannons are the best weapon for the points. One thing to consider is that Heavy Weapon Squads are very high-priority targets. They put out a lot of damage but they are very easy to kill. So if you put Lascannons in then they will be shot at immediately. However, if you put the Lascannons in infantry squads the opponent will tend to not shoot at them because they are way harder to kill and there's only 1 lascannon. But over time that lascannon will kill a lot. So I would say: Lascannons in infantry squads, autocannons or mortars in heavy weapon squads, but it depends what the rest of your list looks like and what you need more of.

MorbidlyObeseMonkey wrote:Overall I would say Autocannons are the best weapon for the points. One thing to consider is that Heavy Weapon Squads are very high-priority targets. They put out a lot of damage but they are very easy to kill. So if you put Lascannons in then they will be shot at immediately. However, if you put the Lascannons in infantry squads the opponent will tend to not shoot at them because they are way harder to kill and there's only 1 lascannon. But over time that lascannon will kill a lot. So I would say: Lascannons in infantry squads, autocannons or mortars in heavy weapon squads, but it depends what the rest of your list looks like and what you need more of.

My list is a Inf. only list. trying to keep the inf mobil. and always moving every turn.

Jerjare wrote:

Ravajaxe wrote:Putting the heavy weapon squad in Chimera would dramatically improve their survivability. But you lose 1 turn of shooting.

Jerjare, your trick with comissar in Chimera does not work. Chimera rules specifically allow orders (and orders only) to be given from vehicle's hull. Special rules like those of lord comissar, not being shooting, nor orders, can't apply.

But I was told that abilities that affect models in a 'radius' around a model go by the transport, if the model creating the radius is in a transport. For the LD bubble, if the Comissar is in the transport, where would you measure from? From a practical perspective, the whole 'Command Vehicle' nature of the Chimera should work just as well with a Comissar barking out orders (or threats )

Sorry, but from nowhere. IMHO, the lord comissar ability is hidered by Chimera itself. Don't forget that shooting from inside a vehicle is not allowed unless it has fire points (or is open-topped). Moreover, only the Chimera special ability allows for orders to be used from hull limits. Comissar command radius is not an order or shooting ability. So it can't be used from inside.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Carlsson wrote:
My list is a Inf. only list. trying to keep the inf mobil. and always moving every turn.

It's not easy for pure footslogging IG in 5th ed. One core unit of this typical 4th ed' list (heavy weapon squads) is now so fragile that you can get wiped out quickely against certain builds / armies. Assault cannons, scatter-laser will mow down your 60 mm based units.



Mortars are an exception, because of their easily hidden concept. I like mortars very much.

In my foot IG, I play some tanks, select some mobile squads, others line squads form my backline. And will switch for half-mechanized soon.