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"Cluster mines are automatically triggered when any unit (friendly or enemy) moves into the booby trapped terrain" (67)

So here are my questions:

1) If a unit were to infiltrate into a terrain piece that was mined, they would not trigger it correct?

2) If aforementioned unit moved within the terrain piece, they would still not trigger it correct?

3) If a unit were to deepstrike directly into a mined terrain piece (ala lictors and any other unit that has the strange deepstrike into terrain features abilty) would they trigger the mines?

Infiltration is deployment, not movement, so the mines wouldnt trigger.

If the unit then moved, they would trigger.

Deepstriking counts as movement, so yes, they would trigger. That would suck, having to take dangerous terrain and THEN having the suvivors get blown up by mines.

Falconlance wrote:

If the unit then moved, they would trigger.

That's what i thought too at first, but it only says that the mines trigger when a unit moves into the terrain piece. If there are any FAQ's or precedents regarding the matter could you please enlighten me?

Yeah you might be on to something with that...

It's just I don't recall ever reading anything in the rulebook about moving "within" terrain, only "into" and "out of of," So I automatically assumed that moving "within" terrain counts as moving "into" terrain.

Give me a few, ill read a little deeper.

It does quite clearly refer to moving into the terrain, not through.

So yeah, I would have to say that infiltrators are in the clear. They would only trigger the mines if they move out and back in again.

Rather counter-intuitive, though. I would be inclined to house-rule it that the mines either have to be placed on unoccupied terrain, or that they trigger when the infiltrators are either deployed or move for the first time.

Yeah, I can't find anything that contradicts, so it looks like that they really mean what they say. This time.

Mwahahahaha!

I has a plan using "undefended scouts" sitting on an objective that is on a terrain piece


Automatically Appended Next Post:
One last question. It also only states that the unit triggering the mines take damage... so... does this really mean that the infiltrating units used in previous examples would take no damage if charged?

That's correct

I lied, i have another question:
If a unit were to assault into a minefield, do the mines count as shooting? And if so, should the ensuing casualties be enough to force a moral check, would the enemy unit flee if they failed it?

Nope. It's not a shooting attack. Although it doesn't have to be... units take a morale test for taking 25% casualties in a phase.

Problem is, that test is taken at the end of the phase... So if they take the casualties as they are charging, they'll still make it into combat and fight the round of combat.

If for whatever reason they are no longer locked in combat at the end of the phase, they would then have to take the morale test for the casualties.

Yes, the codex says to treat them as shooting hits. However, the codex also states in their weapon profile that cluster mines do not allow cover saves.

Er, no, they wouldnt need to take a morale check, because the check would be made at the end of the phase, and they would by then be locked in combat with your scouts, and units in combat do not take morale tests excepting those caused by losing close combat.

Falconlance wrote:Yes, the codex says to treat them as shooting hits. However, the codex also states in their weapon profile that cluster mines do not allow cover saves.

Er, no, they wouldnt need to take a morale check, because the check would be made at the end of the phase, and they would by then be locked in combat with your scouts, and units in combat do not take morale tests excepting those caused by losing close combat.

Alright, thanks! thanks for all of your patience and speedy responses.

Falconlance wrote:Yes, the codex says to treat them as shooting hits.

So it does.

Er, no, they wouldnt need to take a morale check, because the check would be made at the end of the phase, and they would by then be locked in combat with your scouts, and units in combat do not take morale tests excepting those caused by losing close combat.

Which is why I said they would take the morale test if they are no longer locked in combat... If the combat only takes a single round to resolve, they may very well be not locked at the end of the phase. In which case the morale test would be required.

insaniak wrote:

Falconlance wrote:Yes, the codex says to treat them as shooting hits.

So it does.

Er, no, they wouldnt need to take a morale check, because the check would be made at the end of the phase, and they would by then be locked in combat with your scouts, and units in combat do not take morale tests excepting those caused by losing close combat.

Which is why I said they would take the morale test if they are no longer locked in combat... If the combat only takes a single round to resolve, they may very well be not locked at the end of the phase. In which case the morale test would be required.

we posted simultaneously, i hadn't read yours yet, you just hit the submit button sooner. I hope you didn't think i was being snarky at you.

No problems.


To clarify slightly on the morale thing:

The unit suffers 25% casualties as they charge. The need to take a morale test for 25% casualties is determined at the end of the phase, so the unit is unaffected at that point, and continues into combat. So combat is fought as normal.

At the end of the phase, after combat resolution, if the unit is still locked in combat they do not need to take a morale test.

If the unit is no longer in combat because they won, they will need to take a morale test, as they lost 25% of the unit during that phase. Close combat casualties are ignored for this, but the casualties that occurred before the combat will count as normal.

If the unit is no longer in combat because they lost (and won the Sweeping Advance roll, otherwise they would be destroyed or (in the case of Marines) back in combat), they would automatically fail a morale test (because that's what Falling Back units do) and have to immediately Fall Back.

What if they lost and escaped? Do they test and then run an additional 2d6 if they fail?

insaniak wrote:If the unit is no longer in combat because they lost (and won the Sweeping Advance roll, otherwise they would be destroyed or (in the case of Marines) back in combat), they would automatically fail a morale test (because that's what Falling Back units do) and have to immediately Fall Back.

Hadn't ever thought you could make a unit run away twice in the assault phase.

It would be rare, but there is nothing that says you can only Fall Back once in a phase. So every time you meet the conditions that would require a Fall Back move, you Fall Back.

Falconlance wrote:However, the codex also states in their weapon profile that cluster mines do not allow cover saves.

Ignores cove or cover saves may not be taken?

It would be rare, but there is nothing that says you can only Fall Back once in a phase. So every time you meet the conditions that would require a Fall Back move, you Fall Back.

This I was aware of, as you can tank shock a fleeing unit with multiple tanks and make them flee several times (they automatically fail all morale tests when fleeing) , possibly even right off the board, in one movement phase.

Ignores cove or cover saves may not be taken?

Well I dont see the difference, but specifically the codex says, in the cluster mines weapon profile, "no cover saves."