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A tournament is coming up and I have a dilemma... run the same list or change it...

My current list runs the following...

01 Ghazghkull
01 Grotsnik
08 Meganobz (cybork bodies)
in a Battlewagon: Big shoota, Grabbin Klaw, Boarding Plank

x2
01 Nob (Powerklaw & Boss Pole)
19 Boyz (slugga & choppa)
in a Battlewagon: Big shoota, Grabbin Klaw, Boarding Plank, reinforced ram

x4
01 Nob (Powerklaw & Boss Pole)
11 Boyz (slugga & choppa)
in a Trukk: Big shoota, Boarding Planks

I am looking to replace the Meganobz and grotsnik (520 freed up) with something but I keep running into the same problems...

Ghazghkull no longer is fearless, no longer has FNP and no longer has 37 powerklaws to divert attacks to... His unit can wipe most ARMIES if their elite hunters are not in the fight... the slow but purposeful is not a problem because of the 6" Run and their ride never gets shot from under them as I set his battlewagon behind the other two battlewagons... I hit most armies T2 like a sledgehammer unless we are doing a classic "Benny Hill chase scene" with transports... In KP games this unit is a champ by killing over 3 kill points... In capture and control, this unit can tie up a lot of troops and force my opponent to deal with them, wasting valuable time.

I thought about running complex nobz (406 points), this would allow him to keep FNP, but not fearless... My biggest issue is losing the first round of combat. If he loses combat, he could run and get cut down... Grotsnik stops that from happening by making the unit fearless... The 2+ armor save and Feel No Pain pretty much means that I take about 1 fearless wound (If I lost by a lot)

I was wondering if anyone could help me by suggesting something that could fulfill the same role as Grotsnik and meganobz... I have been trying to fit a KFF in my army for the longest time.

Gazzy is a badass no matter who he is with.

One of my FLGS's best players uses him with 'ardboys in a battlewagon, with a second battlewagon with a bigmek for the KFF obscure save, VERY tough to stop AV14 with a 4+ save rolling at you, near guarenteed 2nd turn charge, and gazzys unit generally wins combat, with gazzy used like a sniper for your opponent ICs, they generally dont steamroll units on the charge if the charged models are dedicated CC units, but they will stay stuck in untill the end of the following assault phase, which means gazzy isn't out in the open to get shot.

Isn't he fearless when he calls his WAAAGH! though?

Precisely, he's fearless during the Waagh (so your turn, AND your opponents turn), as is everyone else in your army.

He also has LD9 with a re-roll (bosspole)....

Have you ever felt that Ghazzie + Grotsnik + 8 meganobz (EDIT: ANY KIND OF NOBZ) in one unit is... overkill? I'd just flank you with a land speeder and draw you from my lines.

One side dish that goes well with a full serving of boyz is a open-topped battlewagon filled to the brim with burnas and a big mek. Because you have a Thraka move, you have the option of either using your flame templates OR disembarking, running 6 in. and charging with 10+ power weapons. Of course the big mek will keep your burna numbers up with its kustom forcefield, so your numbers in combat will increase the units success rate. I personally plan to take this unit but haven't adequately play tested it yet. (only downside is that you can't start the game with the burnaz in the wagon)

p.s. This unit would make a great fire magnet to take some notice off of good ole Ghaz.

Not sure how the KFF keeps the burna's numbers up - KFF doesn't work in cc. I assume you meant that the KFF keeps the wagon alive?

A durable wagon means the boyz can move around with a little less to worry about. Plus, if for some reason the wagon is immobilized and you want full use of the thraka move, the burnaz can disembark and will survive a little longer with the KFF than without it. (They are also fearless that turn too ) It provides a little more diversity in my opinion.

DaBoyz wrote:One side dish that goes well with a full serving of boyz is a open-topped battlewagon filled to the brim with burnas and a big mek. Because you have a Thraka move, you have the option of either using your flame templates OR disembarking, running 6 in. and charging with 10+ power weapons. Of course the big mek will keep your burna numbers up with its kustom forcefield, so your numbers in combat will increase the units success rate. I personally plan to take this unit but haven't adequately play tested it yet. (only downside is that you can't start the game with the burnaz in the wagon)

p.s. This unit would make a great fire magnet to take some notice off of good ole Ghaz.

Pretty sure you CAN start the Burnas inside the wagon. The only thing you cannot do, is start them inside another squads dedicated transport. Like, if you had a nob unit and they took a battlewagon, you couldn't start the burnas inside it. But if you use a heavy support wagon I think it's fine.

DaBoyz wrote:(only downside is that you can't start the game with the burnaz in the wagon)

ehrm, yes you can. The only restriction for deploying in transports is if the transport in question is another units dedicated transport.

OT: Ever thought about just dropping Grotsnik and adding a KFF and something more.. like another meganob or 2?

On the other hand, with 10 diversified Nobz you are prectically fearless because of the mob rule and since you can stack wounds on different models + Ghazzys Waaagh, you will be fearless anyway most of the game. And you get FNP to boot.

My vote would actually be on the Nobz + a KFF and something else if the points are sufficient. Maybe RPJ?

That's what I get for not double checking the codex before posting. My bad. . .

Kveldulv wrote:Have you ever felt that Ghazzie + Grotsnik + 8 meganobz (EDIT: ANY KIND OF NOBZ) in one unit is... overkill? I'd just flank you with a land speeder and draw you from my lines.

The unit is not meant to assault one unit... but rather 3 units - the entire enemy army, a 2+ armor save backed by a 4+ FNP means I am pretty much immune to small arms fire... BTW... what land speeder? I can hit everything on the board T2, in addition I block line of sight with trukks. The only thing that would make this better is if I had a KFF... hence why I am trying to fit it in...

Demogerg wrote:Gazzy is a badass no matter who he is with.

I understand that... I currently like burna boyz because they can melt units with 15 flame templates or charge with Ghazghkull with 15*3 power weapon attacks. (I just have to remember that I can only move 6" if I want to melt units.)

Dropping Grotsnik and changing the meganobz into 'Ard Boyz means that I have 80 points left... dropping the bosspole from the Nob in Ghaz's unit means I can pick up a KFF... I also use the extra points to turn 2 units of boyz into 2 units of burnaboyz, I exchange the boarding plank and grabbin klaws that the burna boyz would be using for grot riggers and trade their big shootas for Rokkit Launchas...

Sound Good?

QuietOrkmi wrote:

Dropping Grotsnik and changing the meganobz into 'Ard Boyz means that I have 80 points left... dropping the bosspole from the Nob in Ghaz's unit means I can pick up a KFF... I also use the extra points to turn 2 units of boyz into 2 units of burnaboyz, I exchange the boarding plank and grabbin klaws that the burna boyz would be using for grot riggers and trade their big shootas for Rokkit Launchas...

Sound Good?

I assume you mean to turn the big Boyz mobs in Battlewagons into Burnaboyz. If so, that sounds good, although one unit of 15 Burnas would normally be sufficient. Atleast consider to swith one of the units to Brunas and keep the other as boyz. Also, swapping out the Grabbin klaws and Boardin plank makes sense on the burna-wagon.

Overall I'd say it now looks really good

ARD NOBZ!! normal nob + painboy + power klaws and big choppas

QuietOrkmi wrote:BTW... what land speeder? I can hit everything on the board T2, in addition I block line of sight with trukks.

It's just something one of my opponents have been fiddling with - Grotsnik has to charge / zoom his transport towards the nearest enemy unit and can't leave a unit he has joined. A fast, expendable unit can delay your sledgehammer by flanking it, forcing the BW with Grotsnik towards it. Since movement happens before shooting you can't shoot it beforehand - Grotsnik wheels around. Fine when it's just him, a problem if he also drags Ghazzie and nobz along. Either way it's too many eggs in one basket.

QuietOrkmi wrote:Dropping Grotsnik and changing the meganobz into 'Ard Boyz means that I have 80 points left... dropping the bosspole from the Nob in Ghaz's unit means I can pick up a KFF... I also use the extra points to turn 2 units of boyz into 2 units of burnaboyz, I exchange the boarding plank and grabbin klaws that the burna boyz would be using for grot riggers and trade their big shootas for Rokkit Launchas...

Switching the nobz with ard boyz is a good idea, I think, but I also think 2 full units of burna boyz are overkill. I think the spirit of the original list is great - a sort of mechanized horde that spams regular trukk boyz. Too fast to avoid, too numerous to kill. Your enemy will really struggle with target priority, as you don't rely on gimmicky units, and you can sustain a lot of losses before you begin to fold. Actually, I dig your approach!

Kveldulv wrote:It's just something one of my opponents have been fiddling with - Grotsnik has to charge / zoom his transport towards the nearest enemy unit and can't leave a unit he has joined. A fast, expendable unit can delay your sledgehammer by flanking it, forcing the BW with Grotsnik towards it. Since movement happens before shooting you can't shoot it beforehand - Grotsnik wheels around. Fine when it's just him, a problem if he also drags Ghazzie and nobz along. Either way it's too many eggs in one basket.

An interesting Tactic, I will have to watch out for that. I might have to use a similar strategy against bugs that are out of synapse range... Move a trukk 18" near them and force their assault, bugs are less scary when they hit on 6s and glance on 6s (5s for the genestealers)

Kveldulv wrote:Switching the nobz with ard boyz is a good idea, I think, but I also think 2 full units of burna boyz are overkill. I think the spirit of the original list is great - a sort of mechanized horde that spams regular trukk boyz. Too fast to avoid, too numerous to kill. Your enemy will really struggle with target priority, as you don't rely on gimmicky units, and you can sustain a lot of losses before you begin to fold. Actually, I dig your approach!

Thanks, currently my LFGS is plagued with people who use "Super Units" so I had to adapt from 30 boyz with a powerklaw because they would all die even if they charged. The Meganobz squad is one of the hardest hitting things the ork codex can spit out... losing Grotsnik means the meganobz no longer have a 5++ save and will be dropped as well. My main problem is what ever unit fills its slot will have some pretty big shoes to fill.