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This is just a theory list of mine, I'm thinking I'll proxy it when I have time.

The whole list is a support system to deliver the Vanguard Veterans. I've been mulling over how to use them since the codex came out, and while I don't think I have a perfect unit here, I think it might just do the trick. Before first turn the Scout Bikes infiltrate and scout move to provide a Locator Beacon wherever I want the first turn drops come in. I have my choice of three Tac squads (2 for AT duty, 1 for AI), and two dual-role Dreadnoughts for the initial drop. Starting on the board aside from the bikes are the Terminators and Librarian (who move, fire, and GoI when in range) and the three Thunderfire cannons who lay down covering fire while my three chosen pods drop, most likely both Dreads and an AT Tac squad. Hopefully by 2nd turn, or whenever the Vets come in, I've popped transports and exposed enough enemy infantry to have a devestating charge. The other two pods drop at some point camping or reinforcing objectives as needed, and the Terminators/Librarian jump in close, and I fight a 24" war over the objectives and on top of the enemy lines.

Any infantry without Invulnerable saves is toast if I can hit them with a VV squad, and anyone with Invulnerable saves is even toastier when I get Null Zone in range.

Anyway, that's the crazy plan. Let me know what you think!
GR



Librarian - TDA + SB, GoI, Null Zone

Tactical x 10 - Rocket Launcher, Meltagun, Powerfist, Combi-Melta, Drop Pod + Locator Beacon
Tactical x 10 - Rocket Launcher, Meltagun, Powerfist, Combi-Melta, Drop Pod + Locator Beacon
Tactical x 10 - Heavy Bolter, Flamer, Combi-Flamer, Drop Pod + Locator Beacon

Scout Bikes x 3 - Locator Beacon, Cluster Mines, Astartes Grenade Launcher x 3
Vanguard Veterans x 8 - Relic Blade, Power weapon x 2, Melta Bombs x 3, Jump Pack x 8
Vanguard Veterans x 8 - Relic Blade, Power weapon x 2, Melta Bombs x 3, Jump Pack x 8

Dreadnought - Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod + Locator Beacon
Dreadnought - Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod + Locator Beacon
Terminators x 5 - Cyclone Missile Launcher

Thunderfire Cannon
Thunderfire Cannon
Thunderfire Cannon

2500 points

Thanks for any comments!

You have faily few units started on the table(Bikes and 3 cannons, all of them are vulnerble, correct?). If your opponent start first, you know what will happen to them.

And your first wave melta strike...have 5 shots. How many vehicles your opponent could take, in a 2500pts game?

List looks alright, but those vanguard just zzap too many points. They're really over costed and you have to pay extra for the jump packs. I know you want them for that assault after deep strike special rule, but I would honestly get assault marines or something different, probably another terminator unit as they'll benefit better from the nullzone power and probably cost cheaper.

tokugawa wrote:You have faily few units started on the table(Bikes and 3 cannons, all of them are vulnerble, correct?). If your opponent start first, you know what will happen to them.

And your first wave melta strike...have 5 shots. How many vehicles your opponent could take, in a 2500pts game?

I'm pretty good at reacting to deployment situations. TFC's can be reserved and walked on from the table edge, or just held till the bottom of T1 in Dawn of War. The Bikes win by moving, which they accomplish through use of Infiltrate and Scout before the enemy T1 even begins. If I'm going second, I'm going to keep them in hard cover, even if it means being out of position, to wait for an opening. If I'm going first, they zoom up as close as possible. T1 I'll have three pods dropping, and the job is done. If they die at that point, well, I'm okay with that. The biggest problem I see is if I set up for first turn and loose it to Seize the Initiative... but that's problematic for anyone, and the whole point of the rule in the first place.

mercer wrote:List looks alright, but those vanguard just zzap too many points. They're really over costed and you have to pay extra for the jump packs. I know you want them for that assault after deep strike special rule, but I would honestly get assault marines or something different, probably another terminator unit as they'll benefit better from the nullzone power and probably cost cheaper.

So since the entire list was designed around delivering Vanguard Vets through Heroic Intervention, you think it would be better off just taking them out and replacing them with more mundane units? Really? I'm not sure how that's supposed to be helpful.... Maybe if you can think of a more efficient loadout for the VVs, but I feel like I've got them pretty well stripped. Each unit is a hefty 350 points, but should (with this support network) reliably deliver 3 Str 6 PW, 8 Str 4 PW, and 20 Str 4 attacks on the charge, which they can get before the enemy ever gets to shoot at them. If for some reason I don't have any infantry targets at all, they have 3 meltabombs for stationary backfield armor. Mystics will be a problem, but so will they be to every other Deep Strike army.

Its just they're too expensive for what they do. If they had jump packs standard they'd probably be more better. I swear jump packs costing something were a typo....lol.

Oh, I'd rather take a fist instead of melta bombs. You can whack walkers, monstrous creatures, vehicles and infantry. It will cost you extra 10 points from some where and also give you the same number of attacks back as melta bombs, but you can smack monstrous creatures with it wounding on a 2+. The relic blade wounds mostly on a 4+. I would drop a power weapon from a each unit to cost this, but you'll still have 5 points spare from each unit if my maths is right.

I think you're a little light on anti-vehicular capabilities, especially at range. I think replacing two of those Thunderfires with a Devastator squad with 2 Missile Launchers a lascannon and a heavy bolter might be a good idea, or a Lascannon Predator.

mercer wrote:Its just they're too expensive for what they do. If they had jump packs standard they'd probably be more better. I swear jump packs costing something were a typo....lol.

Oh, I'd rather take a fist instead of melta bombs. You can whack walkers, monstrous creatures, vehicles and infantry. It will cost you extra 10 points from some where and also give you the same number of attacks back as melta bombs, but you can smack monstrous creatures with it wounding on a 2+. The relic blade wounds mostly on a 4+. I would drop a power weapon from a each unit to cost this, but you'll still have 5 points spare from each unit if my maths is right.

That's a really good idea, I just hate that only the Sarge can take the Relic Blade. I'll have to look it up when I get home, but can't I put a Powerfist on a regular VV? If so, I'll do 1 PF instead of the 3 MB, and only need to find 20 points somewhere.

@ Commander Endova - I'll think about adding the Predator instead, but this army isn't designed for ranged AV. It's a drop-in-your-face army. The plan is for the dreads and the Meltagun squad to destroy vehicles in the first turn(s), with the Bikers guiding them in to perfect melta range. The Bikers themselves can deliver Str 6 Krak shots with the AGLs (questionable, but has potential, even with the Str 3 Blast shot against light infantry). In later turns, the Flamer squad and the Vanguard Vets land to chew through enemy infantry. If I end up fighting a range war, I will be at a disadvantage, with only 4 Rockets a turn. The TFCs were taken because they are cheap, and can cause immobilization checks on vehicles headed for my zone, and punish any infantry I can catch in the crossfire.

Fair enough. Obviously the Thunderfires are an exception to the in your face rule. I was merely suggesting a Predator with some AV capability as all that AI firepower seems redundant.

An alternative idea that just occurred to me would be to replace one thunderfirse with two drop pods, one for each of the other two thunderfires. This Brings your total to 7, which allows you 4 pods in our first turn instead of 3, and you have those 2 extra pods to drop down and contest objectives, or generally just annoy your opponent with.

That's another really good idea. I might try it both ways, and see which works out better. Three TFC's is just such a large saturation of fire, and for so cheap! Two is probably sufficient, but three seemed like such a nice round number...

I more or less see these as disposable anyway, if they get just a turn or two of firing, they make up their cost. My plan was to spread them out as far as possible, making the enemy really work to shut them down with CC, and each in Bolstered cover to make them hard to shoot at, and way off of the objectives. 40K is such a short game that running them down will most likely cost them units on top of objectives at the end of the game.

So I guess they're bait. I had thought about finding a way to do 3 Vindicators instead, but I don't see Vindicators as being as useful for filling the gaps this army has.

Looking back over some of the mission tells me that your going to be hard pressed to get to objectives. If say you pod in on turn three and an ovjective shows on turn four. Now come the choice of killing and or starting to attempt to seek the objective.


The other issue is that your trying to bring all this stuff in on three Bikes. If your plan fails, your looking at standard drops which run off course....

GeneralRetreat wrote:

mercer wrote:Its just they're too expensive for what they do. If they had jump packs standard they'd probably be more better. I swear jump packs costing something were a typo....lol.

Oh, I'd rather take a fist instead of melta bombs. You can whack walkers, monstrous creatures, vehicles and infantry. It will cost you extra 10 points from some where and also give you the same number of attacks back as melta bombs, but you can smack monstrous creatures with it wounding on a 2+. The relic blade wounds mostly on a 4+. I would drop a power weapon from a each unit to cost this, but you'll still have 5 points spare from each unit if my maths is right.

That's a really good idea, I just hate that only the Sarge can take the Relic Blade. I'll have to look it up when I get home, but can't I put a Powerfist on a regular VV? If so, I'll do 1 PF instead of the 3 MB, and only need to find 20 points somewhere.

Just checked, any model in vanguard can take a power fist . I really do like the relic blade, but as a thunder hammer costs the same points I'd get that as its a steal!