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My first question is regarding Fateweaver's Oracle of Eternity.

We have been playing many Apocolypse team games and the term "Friendly" has been repeatedly brought into question. I had thought that it had in the past been used to include allied armies but am unable to locate anything to prove this. It has been argued that this would still only include units within my own army selection. So would it mean....

1. Any allied unit

2. Any unit from the same player (potentially being other non-daemons in Apocolypse)

2. Only Daemons from the same player.


My second question is regarding the Changelings Glamour of Tzeentch

When a unit tests and fails verus this ability would it still be able to assault? Like if it was forced to shoot at an allied unit?

Raland wrote:When a unit tests and fails verus this ability would it still be able to assault? Like if it was forced to shoot at an allied unit?

I know nothing about Apocalypse, but I do know that BRB, p33 states that "a unit that fired in the Shooting phase can only assault the unit it shot at".

Raland wrote:
My second question is regarding the Changelings Glamour of Tzeentch

When a unit tests and fails verus this ability would it still be able to assault? Like if it was forced to shoot at an allied unit?

If Unit A succumbs to the Changeling's glamor and fires on a friendly Unit B, Unit A would have to declare an assault on Unit B if it were to assault anything. For this reason, Unit A is going to have a difficult time making any assaults that turn.

Now, personally, as a Daemon player, I'd be willing to make an exception and allow Unit A to assault Unit B and extend it into a multiple assault with some other daemon units, if Unit A and Unit B were acting as if they were on opposing sides and tried to kill each other in the assault phase.

Fair enough regarding apocalypse, though it's conceivable to be playing a multiplayer game with just the basic rulebook. Would the term "friendly" allow the ability to work on the allied players units?

Quite simply, there aren't rules for it. By strict reading, yes.

Edit: For fun, ally with a CSM player and see if the opponents lets you DS in off their "chaos icons."

forkbanger wrote:... but I do know that BRB, p33 states that "a unit that fired in the Shooting phase can only assault the unit it shot at".

This. If the unit fired at another unit, that's the only unit it can assault. If that unit is friendly, that means no assault that turn.

Raland wrote:Fair enough regarding apocalypse, though it's conceivable to be playing a multiplayer game with just the basic rulebook.

It's conceivable, but not really in the realm of what the normal rules cover. The standard rules deal solely with single players on a side.

Would the term "friendly" allow the ability to work on the allied players units?

Before Codex: Imperial Guard, I would have said 'yes'...

Some codexes have rules that refer specifically to their own army ('...a Necron unit within...') whilst some refer just to 'friendly units'... so I would have said that the first is restricted to units from that codex, whilst the second could apply to allies.

However, the Guard FAQ does state that Orders (which the codex says can be issued to 'friendly non-vehicle units') can not be issued to allies, but instead can only be issued to units from Codex: Imperial Guard.

So whilst it could certainly be argued that this should apply only to Guard (and specifically only to Guard armies including Inquisition allies, since that's what the FAQ is specifically talking about) it could be seen to serve as a declaration of intent... Special rules, regardless of the exact terminology, only apply to that army, not to allies.

insaniak wrote:Before Codex: Imperial Guard, I would have said 'yes'...

Some codexes have rules that refer specifically to their own army ('...a Necron unit within...') whilst some refer just to 'friendly units'... so I would have said that the first is restricted to units from that codex, whilst the second could apply to allies.

However, the Guard FAQ does state that Orders (which the codex says can be issued to 'friendly non-vehicle units') can not be issued to allies, but instead can only be issued to units from Codex: Imperial Guard.

So whilst it could certainly be argued that this should apply only to Guard (and specifically only to Guard armies including Inquisition allies, since that's what the FAQ is specifically talking about) it could be seen to serve as a declaration of intent... Special rules, regardless of the exact terminology, only apply to that army, not to allies.

This is very helpful basis to form a ruling, I wasn't finding other references to the term "Friendly"

If any of you had actually read the Apocalypse book, you would know that one player can never benefit from another player's army's special rules unless it specifically says so. This means no sharing Rites of Battle, Chaos Icons, Teleport Homers, or even Orders to other Guard players.

Note that any models you control will benefit from special rules, even if they are from different armies. Therefore, Vulkan's effect could even extend to Guard.

thebetter1 wrote:If any of you had actually read the Apocalypse book, you would know that one player can never benefit from another player's army's special rules unless it specifically says so. This means no sharing Rites of Battle, Chaos Icons, Teleport Homers, or even Orders to other Guard players.

A page reference would have been helpful...

Page 20, 'Select Teams'... 4th paragraph.

I would also point out that the fact that players have missed a given rule doesn't mean that they haven't 'actually read' the relevant book.

Note that any models you control will benefit from special rules, even if they are from different armies. Therefore, Vulkan's effect could even extend to Guard.

Unless you apply the FAQ ruling I mentioned before...

I honestly thought that the term "friendly" would transcend/superseed/trump such a ruling. That in it's use it was "intended" to be used by other armies. I will be recommending we go by the precedent set in the IG FAQ