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So all this KFF debate has made me think of one more little nuance to the situation that I haven't seen before (sorry if it's been brought up but I've looked and not found yet). So let's say you're playing as an Ork player vs a marine who has bolstered defenses, or there just happens to be some 3+ cover on the board. Can a vehicle with a big mek with KFF in it sit in this cover (even if it's completely flat and doesn't obscure the vehicle) and benefit from the 3+ save because the KFF satisfies the "obscured" provision, and so then you would take whatever the highest save is?

Adamah wrote:So all this KFF debate has made me think of one more little nuance to the situation that I haven't seen before (sorry if it's been brought up but I've looked and not found yet). So let's say you're playing as an Ork player vs a marine who has bolstered defenses, or there just happens to be some 3+ cover on the board. Can a vehicle with a big mek with KFF in it sit in this cover (even if it's completely flat and doesn't obscure the vehicle) and benefit from the 3+ save because the KFF satisfies the "obscured" provision, and so then you would take whatever the highest save is?

Errm... If it's area terrain, it doesn't matter, you get the cover save anyway.

Yes, but can the vehicle utilise the save because it is obscured by the KFF?

Adamah wrote:Yes, but can the vehicle utilise the save because it is obscured by the KFF?

No.

Being Obscured offers it's own save. The terrain would offer a different one (improved of course). As the vehicle doesn't have 50% coverage from the terrain, then it can't use the terrain's improved cover save, and must use the KFF's standard "obscured" save.

Just like any infantry units in the same area would have 2 saves to 'choose' (its not really a choice, you have to pick the better one) from. The KFF (5+) or the improved ruin terrain of a 3+.

S-o, if a big mek with a KFF inside a Battlewagon is sitting next to a (rather large) ruined wall which has bolstered, and the ruined wall is obscuring the battlewagon but more than 50%... the Battlewagon can choose to take its KFF save OR the bolstered ruin save?

No, it HAS both saves but MUST pick the better save. You are always forced to pick the best save.

Cool cool. Not sure why you would pick the worse save

So if an short wall was bolstered, and was in the way of your KFF Battlewagon and the enemy firing upon it, you would not get the bolstered save, as the bolstered wall is too short to cover 50% of your Battlewagon.

However, if the wall is large enough to cover 50% of the battlewagon, you DO get the cover save.

The bolstered wall has no effect on the KFF whatsoever... but the bolstered wall, if big enough, is a much finer safety net than the KFF!

(hope this clears this up )