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Just wondering what you guys prefer for IG artillery pieces.

I go for a Medusa, myself. The 36" demolisher cannon and 48" s10 ap1 2d6 blast for armor pen and the cost sell it to me.

Manticore, I'm incapable of making an IG army without one

Manticore man.... That thing is just death incarnate; sweet, sweet horde death. I'm with Illumini, I really can't make a list without it being included in there somewhere.

Just one word: Manticore.
The nemesis of all LRs or hordes...

Manticore...tested, tried, and proven in my battles

with the Basilisk at second place...(a true eradicator of AS 3+ MEQ units when fired indirectly at targets not in area terrain or ruins)...

Ok, so general consensus is that the manticore kicks ass. Any recommendations on modding one? Most I've seen are using the Whirlwind turret on chimeras.

I just used a whirlwind I had for my BA army, and repainted it the colors of my IG army.... No one has had an issue with it so far.

bsohi wrote:I just used a whirlwind I had for my BA army, and repainted it the colors of my IG army.... No one has had an issue with it so far.

Really? In this case, I might buy my friend's (he has 3).

Gavo wrote:Ok, so general consensus is that the manticore kicks ass. Any recommendations on modding one? Most I've seen are using the Whirlwind turret on chimeras.

that's what i'm doing, of sorts. i used the new Hellhound body with a Whirlwind turret. i should have it done today and i'll throw a pic up.

I made mine out of a Basilisk Set and very little plastic I had laying around, from hotel keycards. There's a pic or two in my gallery if you want to see.

Cheap resin turret and valk missiles - pics in my second batrep

I used the base of the aegis defence line gun as the turret,then i magnetized four of the old tube looking HK missed on the sides. It looks similar to the FW one except my missle are inside launch tubes.You can add radar dish bits and antenna to the top of it. Also you can use the same magnets to turn it into a hydra turret.

Manticore fills a kinda wierd role in an IG list. It's kind a pricey and doesn't pierce power armor/ignore cover/do anything to really make it unique. It does have S10 and D3 shots, but if the first goes off into timbuktu (entirely plausible), the shot is typically wasted just as badly as any other ordinance.

I'm a much bigger fan of the colossus. Wait until you exlode a vehicle and with everyone sitting in the wreckage take a shot that will usually wound on 2's with no armor. A direct usually means most if not all of a squad is gone and it's also pretty handy for scouts/rangers/anything that sits on a objective with a good cover save.

Medusa with bastion breachers is also a good choice. S10+2D6 and AP1 to boot says slice a vehicle in half. Even without the center being over the target it's still S5+2D6 which will easily pierce rhinos and still AP1. Overall it's one of the best ways to drop a vehicle in the game of 40K.

You can fire directly when that is the better option, giving you D3 chances to land that perfect shot (or just 3 hits )

Manticore doesn't fill a weird hole in the IG list, it is the best long-range anti-tank available to IG. It can also explode nob bikers and remove hordes, but the anti-armour effect is IMO the most important. I've tried the Medusa with BBS, and it is not by far as good as the Manticore

Colossus has a 24" blindzone and can't move and fire, probably my least favorite of the artillery (still decent though)

A Medusa with Bastion Breacher shells has a couple of problems: Direct Fire, 3" blast marker, and its Heavy, and can't fire using the regular Ordnance. At least it has the extra range.

There's a reason it's a Bastion Breacher shell, rather than an anti-tank shell.

Nurglitch, how is it "heavy" and how does that change anything?

And how exactly are you interpreting best S and AP possible in the game combined with 2D6 for pen as not being anti-tank? Can't fire using regular ordinance is a valid criticism, but the bastion breachers are pure Anti-Armor. Vanilla medusas run into the problem of being only 30 points less than a demolisher and using basically the same gun.

Manticore isn't the best long range AT in IG the Medusa packing BBS is. This isn't an opinion, it's a provable fact. S10 + 2D6 + AP1 = dead tank, even if the center hole isn't over the target S5 + 2D6 still pens up AV11 on average and wth good rolls could still pen AV14. This is the other big selling point for the medusa as direct hits aren't required you can more easily get 2 with 1 shot and have better odds of kills even with scatter.

All of that aside though, through Vendettas, Hydras and the whole rest of the IG army, long range AT has never been enough of an issue that I say to myself "Damn I could really use something to deal with that". On the nob bikers, Vanilla Leman russes do pretty well against them, in fact high enough S to insta-gib them isn't a problem for the bulk of the IG list. This is part of the reason the Manticore has an "Odd role" as I put it. It gives you something the army isn't in terribly desperate need of in the form of ranged anti-armor and lets you pop hordes, but on average a pair of griffons fair better in that role for slightly less points. It's like the devil-dog, not bad, but I'm not sure what they bring to the table that the army needs or even wants.

As a side note on colossus, yes they have a blind side, but also a ludacrous max range, bury it in a table corner under piles of armor and it won't be an issue.

I'm a bigger fan of the artillery that does something unique i.e. ingoring cover or some other gimmick. Otherwise it's just a chimera with a big gun and often open-topped to boot for the same or only slightly less points than a full-fledged leman russ.

Mastershake:

It's "Heavy" because that's what is printed in the book under the Bastion Breacher's profile. Not "Ordnance", "Heavy".

Take that Heavy and instead of rolling 2D6 and choosing the best, you just roll 2D6 and add them together. The latter should be better, right? No, not if you have some rule denying bonuses, like Wave Serpents and Monoliths. Okay, you can fire either a Heavy Bolter or a Heavy Flamer in the same turn, but...why? Plus, as you mention, it costs more.

Ordinary Ordnance also uses a large 5" blast, which makes it harder to miss a relatively small target such as a tank. It's essentially BS2, because it has 2/6 chances of hitting, and 4/6 chances of scattering where it won't make a difference. Ordinary Medusas at least have a full sized 5" template to chuck around, so a near miss is more likely, and a full miss will at least kill more of what's lying around. You say they don't need direct hits, which is true, but even getting near misses is harder. On average it'll scatter 4"+!

Bastions are big, they are hard to miss, and Bastion Breacher shells are better against them than ordinary Medusa shells. They're not so great against tanks. At least with Manticores you have a chance at D3 hits.

I ran the numbers a while back and a single hit from either a BB Medusa or Manticore has about the same chance of taking down a Monolith. Manticore is more likely to penetrate because Living Metal doesn't negate ordnance while Medusa's Ap1 makes what damaging hits it does manage to get more likely to do something useful. Manticore's possible multiple shots gives it an edge in this case, but this target is the most favorable to the Manticore as possible. Wave Serpent enegy field reduces both to S8 +1d6, but the Medusa retains Ap1. Nearly everything else lets the Medusa keep its bonus d6.

Chances of hitting dead on are slightly better than you think. Roll 2 or 3 on 2d6 and you don't move anywhere at all, and a 4 will still hit anything I can think of - are there any vehicles less than two inches wide? At least 44% chance to hit, likely better.


My personal favorite is the Basilisk. Fun little tank that can usually find something worthwhile to shoot even if it isn't ever the best tool for any given target. Manticore gives it some tough competition but I don't own any of those.

Manticore is so boring, everyone uses it.
Maybe its just me but when something becomes a cookie-cutter must i just can't use it anymore

Griffons are my personal fav, and at 75 points cheap as sand.

Griffons go bang! Love 'em. Mind you, I have a really beaten up hellhound I picked up off eBay which may well get manticored if I can find something for the turret body in my bits box...

My standard list usually runs two manticores and one BBS Medusa. Of course, I also run two vendettas and two Banewolves with MM.

Here are some pictures of my manticores. I opted to not go with the turret route.

http://i324.photobucket.com/albums/k324/shotgunlaw/IMG_1434.jpg

http://i324.photobucket.com/albums/k324/shotgunlaw/IMG_1435.jpg

http://i324.photobucket.com/albums/k324/shotgunlaw/IMG_1436.jpg

http://i324.photobucket.com/albums/k324/shotgunlaw/IMG_1438.jpg

I haven't been in geometry class for some years, but I think the chances of the center hole winding up over the target are the same regardless of whether it's a small blast or a large blast template. The holes are the same size on both templates.

Flavius Infernus:

That's true. I think it was the off-centre hits. You're just as likely to miss with the centre hole, but more likely to miss entirely with a 3" blast than a 5" blast. Of course, you actually get a chance to penetrate a Land Raider with the 3" blast near-miss, but (without doing the math) I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the probability of doing so is marginal compared to the chance of a direct hit with either, and in aggregate less than the probability of doing so with multiple Storm Eagle 5" blasts.

Nurglitch wrote:Flavius Infernus:

That's true. I think it was the off-centre hits. You're just as likely to miss with the centre hole, but more likely to miss entirely with a 3" blast than a 5" blast. Of course, you actually get a chance to penetrate a Land Raider with the 3" blast near-miss, but (without doing the math) I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the probability of doing so is marginal compared to the chance of a direct hit with either, and in aggregate less than the probability of doing so with multiple Storm Eagle 5" blasts.

Needs a 9+ on 2d6 to penetrate, about 22% chance. Better than a direct hit with a lascannon even before accounting for Ap1. More or less half as good as a direct storm eagle hit.

A problem with the small blast of the bastion breacher is that it makes the weapon worse at secondary roles. BB Medusa is a tank hunter and nothing else while the Manticore is also a capable antipersonnel weapon if need be.

coversaves also screw with the medusa, while the manticore can often bypass them by shooting indirect (hitting side armour at the same time), or by simply putting more hits on the vehicle

Manticore is my favorite artillery piece hands down.

Manticore is pretty good at killing or immoblizing Land Raiders with D3 Strength 10 templates and have a good chance of penetrating with 2d6 take the highest from ordinance. If there no land raiders Manticore has about a 44% chance of hitting a Rhino per shot.

Manticore is great against hordes with an average of 2 large strength 10 ap4 templates that ignore their armor saves and cover unless they in area terrain of have a custom force field.

Manticore insta kills nobs and thunderwolves although nobs get a 4+ cover save and thunderwolves get their 3+
Manticores aren't terrible at killing Marines since you might get multiple templates which can hit a decent amount of marines if they just fell out of a blown up transport.

Yeah the Griffon is my baby. At 75 pts I'm sometimes tempted to bring 2 and mess up the hordes.

I don't play guard (play CSM), but i play against them a fair bit, so I'll list my LEAST favourite artillery peices

I hate the medusa for its "i will bring the hardcore pain to anything you field against me and you pretty much HAVE to come into my range buddy".

I hate the Manticore on paper, since none of my friends have one/have proxied one yet (something I'm kinda grateful for )

and i hate the Basilisk, for its hit-you-anywhere-on-the-board and AP3/instant death goodness.

Griffon. I can have 2 for what a Manticore costs, and sure it lacks big armor popping, but the Accurate Bombardment makes it really angry vs light armor and pretty much any infantry and it is the best thing going for counter-battery fire. I like all of them for one thing or another, but the cost/effect ratio is pretty high with the little guy. And it doesn't draw as much fire as the bigger guns.

Griffons are amazing for sheer cost-effectiveness and for their usefulness against a wide range of targets. Medusae are incredible against most anything you care to name, but watch out for the lower range and lack of indirect fire.

Never tried a Manticore, but it certainly seems to have a lot of potential on paper.