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I'm new to the 40k tabletop game. I have always loved the fluff and thought I would get into the actual game. I've been working on this list for a little while now and was wondering if anyone had any advice or comments for me. Don't hold back.

230 - Tigurius

215 - 10 Tactical Marines w/ chainsword (sergeant), plasma gun, heavy bolter and drop pod
215 - 10 Tactical Marines w/ chainsword (sergeant), plasma gun, missile launcher and drop pod
210 - 10 Tactical Marines w/ chainsword (sergeant), meltagun, multi-melta and drop pod
200 - 10 Scout Marines w/ heavy bolter (with hellfire shells), 4 sniper rifles and Sergeant Telion

285 - 10 Sternguard Veterans and drop pod
150 - Dreadnought w/ heavy flamer, multi-melta and drop pod
150 - Dreadnought w/ heavy flamer, multi-melta and drop pod

100 - Thunderfire Cannon
120 - Predator w/ side sponson lascannons
125 - Vindicator w/ siege shield

your heavy choices seem to lack synergy withe rest of your army. what is the thought behind them? personally i would just use two vindi's to frighten your opponent and deny them a table quarter.

tigurius is also a different choice. there seems no way to deploy him with the rest of the forces. is that what you had in mind?

i think the missile launcher is out of place. you will be close so use free multi-melta or heavy bolter to add greater weight of fire.

Reminds me of my army. Except yours is less tanky.

Lots of good ideas here but not enough commitment or duel threat.

Tiggy is a large point sink for a model that will die to a melta shot (or Powerfist hit) on a 2+ with no save at all...

Decent amount of troops at this level is good, but I'd put some PFs in the tac squads to discourage people from assaulting them.

Realising scout snipers are only good as a Telion delivery system is good but having them combat squad to give you 5 bolter scouts and heavy bolter won't help you. Keep them as one squad all snipers (and a missile launcher for Telion to play with) and give them camocloaks so they can camp on an objective an be a pain in the a...

Sternguard in a pod are excellent esspecially in this DP assault army (which will mean you almost get value out of Tiggy assuming he doesn't get meltaed or PFed). But without combi-weapons they ae likely to be a bit stuck and are hudgely less effective. Always give them a smatering of combi-meltas so you can pop armour. Having them DP in with your dreads will then give you 3 armour popping squads andf you can combat squad so the other half of the unit can waste infantry. Combi-flamers or heavy flamers are excellent additions for this.

2 Dreads identically armed is bang on.

Heavy support seems a bit of a mess you obviously couldn't decide what you wanted. My advice would be take 2 Predators for transport poping to slow down mech and then hav the other choice either a vindicator or THunderfire. Which ever you think is best for your army. Both are great against infantry. The thunderfire has range and is great anti-horde which makes it a petrfect compliament to your "fierbase" (scout snipers and preds). Vindicator gives you devastating anti-MEQ/TEQ fire. However it is shorter ranged and will have to move forward to get into range thus having it become a bit of a lone tank in no mans land, which is rarely a good idea. But if you have probelms with TEQs (or MEQs) it is your best option.

Essentially metagame will be a deciding factor on which of those 3 is best suited to you. My advice is take 2 of 1 and 1 of another, but as the TFC and Vindi are both infantry based you should always take at least one Pred for anti-armour.

I'm not done altering this list to include your advice. I am just posting it again to include more snipers. I took the missile launcher because of its versatility as both anti-infantry and anti-armor. If this is not neccesary, would you suggest a heavy bolter (anti-infantry) or a multi-melta (anti-armor) to replace it? I understand Tigurius is kind of expensive, but I really like the abilities he brings to the table (three psychic powers a turn and re-roll for reserves). He can also join another squad in their drop pod from what I understand. I have heard different things about the predator and the vindicator. You are absolutely right. I have no idea which to take. Which do you ultimately find more useful on a regular basis and would a whirlwind be worth considering? As far as powerfists and combi weapons are concerned, what should I drop to fit the points for them?

230 - Tigurius

215 - 10 Tactical Marines w/ chainsword (sergeant), plasma gun, heavy bolter and drop pod
215 - 10 Tactical Marines w/ chainsword (sergeant), plasma gun, missile launcher and drop pod
210 - 10 Tactical Marines w/ chainsword (sergeant), meltagun, multi-melta and drop pod
200 - 10 Scout Marines w/ heavy bolter (with hellfire shells), 8 sniper rifles and Sergeant Telion

285 - 10 Sternguard Veterans and drop pod
150 - Dreadnought w/ heavy flamer, multi-melta and drop pod
150 - Dreadnought w/ heavy flamer, multi-melta and drop pod

100 - Thunderfire Cannon
120 - Predator w/ side sponson lascannons
125 - Vindicator w/ siege shield

vindicator. You are absolutely right. I have no idea which to take. Which do you ultimately find more useful on a regular basis and would a whirlwind be worth considering? As far as powerfists and combi weapons are concerned, what should I drop to fit the points for them?

Whirlwind is just a poormans Thunderfire. Good but the Thunderfire is often better, Whirlwind is far more survivable and probably better as a single unit, though 2 TFCs is better than 2 Whirlwinds (if you see what I mean).

The vindicator needs to be competeing with eth Thunderfire for a slot. The Pred fulfills an entirely different role.

My advice is it is worth tryiing all 3 or looking at your regular/likely opponents.

Lots or Terminators and MEQs? Vidicator is your man. Full mech with everything in a transport (this is how most competitive builds look) then Pred is the choice (I'd adise at least 1 pred for this purpose anyway). Or has everyone jumped on the New Tyranid swarm bandwagon or go for ork boyz and KFF, then TFC is the way to go.

As for where to find points. Well you could stream line your heavy support to just 2 of one thing if you look at your opponents an decide that one of the 3 options is definitely the best bet. Though a 2 and 1 mix is nice and gives you flexibility.

Otherwise I'd drop some of the sternguard. They need some combi-weapons to be truely useful anyway if you drop them down to a 5-7 man squad all with combi-wepaons they will be far more threatening. That should free up enough points for some PFs in the Tac squads. Though the most obvious place to find points is to swap Tiggy for an Epistolary... That seems like something you are dead against so consider the other things I've suggested.

When you say you are using the Crimson fists rules do you mean stubborn? Or are Sterngaurd scoring as well? If so you can drop or reduce a tac squad.

This is what I would do with your list to incorporate some advice provided above. You'll have to check my points since i used your values s a guide (my dex is not with me).

230 - Tigurius

240 - 10 Tactical Marines w/ FIST, plasma gun, heavy bolter and drop pod
235 - 10 Tactical Marines w/ FIST, meltagun, multi-melta and drop pod
235 - 10 Tactical Marines w/ FIST, meltagun, multi-melta and drop pod
200 - 10 Scout Marines w/ Missile Launcher & cloaks, 8 sniper rifles and Sergeant Telion

305 - 10 Sternguard Veterans w/ 4 Combi's and drop pod
150 - Dreadnought w/ heavy flamer, multi-melta and drop pod
150 - Dreadnought w/ heavy flamer, multi-melta and drop pod

125 - Vindicator w/ siege shield
125 - Vindicator w/ siege shield


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I still don't see how you are delivering Tig. I think dropping a stern or two and bringing tiggy down with them would be good. Of course this unit will attract tons of attention. You should have points left over that could go toward locator beacons to accurately drop pods & Gate a unit around with Tig.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also am not a huge fan of the scout config. Check this blog out for scout tactics: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?autocom=ineo&showarticle=503

i agree with Duece, the fists in your squads will add some real punch to your army in melee that you might not notice without placing it on the table, but there will be great synergy with your army, and the elites choice will provide you with a good base of fire power.

Just for confirmation DPs can carry 12 models so Tig can jump in any of the DPs without having to reduce the numbers in the units.

Sternguard + combi-flamers/heavy flamers + Gate + ocator beacons = horrific flamey death. You can take out a 30 strong boyz squad a turn doing that

That is a great tactic to use with Tiggy! As he can gate, use avenger/smite and still cast either force dome or nullzone to either further help your fire or protect your sternguard from reprisails...

Here is another update. Other than dropping sternguards, are there any other ways to get the points for combi weapons and powerfists? If not, isn't special ammunition good enough?

230 - Tigurius

215 - 10 Tactical Marines w/ chainsword (sergeant), plasma gun, heavy bolter and drop pod
215 - 10 Tactical Marines w/ chainsword (sergeant), plasma gun, missile launcher and drop pod
210 - 10 Tactical Marines w/ chainsword (sergeant), meltagun, multi-melta and drop pod
180 - 10 Scout Marines w/ sniper rifle (sergeant), heavy bolter (with hellfire shells), 8 sniper rifles and 10 camo cloaks

285 - 10 Sternguard Veterans and drop pod
150 - Dreadnought w/ heavy flamer, multi-melta and drop pod
150 - Dreadnought w/ heavy flamer, multi-melta and drop pod

120 - Predator w/ side sponson lascannons
120 - Predator w/ side sponson lascannons
125 - Vindicator w/ siege shield

Well you could drop a HS slot (which on your new list would mean the Vindi). Or you could drop Tiggy to an epistolary or even a basic librarian. At this points level you probably don't want to be dropping troops choices, though you could slim the scout squad.

Special ammo is great but Sternguard don't really become points efficient unless they have combi-weapons or Pedro to make them scoring.

I too am a fan of ultramarines My first and only army

If you're dropping in using pods, fists on sarges are almost mandatory cause you will be in the thick of thing. Without a powerfist it only take a medium assault unit to break your tactical squads . With one you can pretty much haul yourself out of any nasty situation

Specialize your tacs. The point of using drop pod is to hit hard and hit fast. U have three squads, perfectly suited for specialization My suggestion:
Tact 1 with flamer, combi flamer and powerfist, heavy bolter or missile launcher. This is your horde control squad. Aim it at the biggest horde in your army or to scour them out of objective.

Tac 2 plasma gun, plasma cannon and powerfist, combi-plasma. Anti-Teq squad.

Tac 3 melta gun, multi-melta, fist. Use this to drown any nasty hostile armor

Stick Tigurius with the Sternguard. Arm the pod with locator beacon to assist the other pod arriving. Once arrived, flame anything with the Avenger. After that remember to cast Force Dome on your Sternguard, or GoI to teleport them around hitting stuffs.

This is surprisingly good for a newcomer's list.

The GoI tactic with the Sternguard veteran is some good stuff, never accrued to me and i would strongly back that strategy, i would suggest keeping the TAC squads in the list for a 2000 point army just so you have 4 scoring units any less and the army gets to be limited if you lose one, also the specializing of the TAC squads as mentioned above by
Dalaran would be a sound plan as well.

How is this? The combi-weapons can be whatever the battle calls for.

230 - Tigurius

230 - 10 Tactical Marines w/ powerfist (sergeant), flamer, heavy bolter and drop pod
245 - 10 Tactical Marines w/ powerfist (sergeant), plasma gun, plasma cannon and drop pod
235 - 10 Tactical Marines w/ powerfist (sergeant), meltagun, multi-melta and drop pod

355 - 10 Sternguard Veterans w/ powerfist (sergeant), 9 combi-weapons and drop pod
170 - Dreadnought w/ heavy flamer, multi-melta and drop pod w/ deathwind
170 - Dreadnought w/ heavy flamer, multi-melta and drop pod w/ deathwind

120 - Predator w/ side sponson lascannons
120 - Predator w/ side sponson lascannons
125 - Vindicator w/ siege shield

Or...

230 - Tigurius

205 - 10 Tactical Marines w/ chainsword (sergeant), flamer, heavy bolter (or missile launcher) and drop pod
220 - 10 Tactical Marines w/ chainsword (sergeant), plasma gun, plasma cannon and drop pod
210 - 10 Tactical Marines w/ chainsword (sergeant), meltagun, multi-melta and drop pod
180 - 10 Scout Marines w/ sniper rifle (sergeant), heavy bolter (with hellfire shells), 8 sniper rifles and 10 camo cloaks

290 - 10 Sternguard Veterans w/ chainsword and meltabombs (sergeant) and drop pod
150 - Dreadnought w/ heavy flamer, multi-melta and drop pod
150 - Dreadnought w/ heavy flamer, multi-melta and drop pod

120 - Predator w/ side sponson lascannons
120 - Predator w/ side sponson lascannons
125 - Vindicator w/ siege shield

If you're not taking Telion don't take sniper scouts BS3 means they'll generally struggle to any damage to anything.

Though a touch light on Troops (the first new list) holding ALL your troops in reserve will allow you to keep them out of harms way until later in the battle. Using Tiggies ability to bring onm the specialised Tac squad that most suites the situation whilst keeping others in the reserve for as long as possible.

I like that list quite a bit, should be pretty horriffic. The aim would be to win the battle with your elites and heavy support and only one troops choice hold the others safe for late game objective grabbing.

I felt that I had too much anti-armor, particularly with the combi-weapons, and not enough anti-infantry. So, I dropped the powerfist in the sternguard (who would do everything in their power to avoid close combat) and gave the dreadnoughts assault cannons. Assault cannons are great mediums because they can still kill vehicles, even a land raider if I'm lucky.

230 - Tigurius

230 - 10 Tactical Marines w/ powerfist (sergeant), flamer, heavy bolter and drop pod
245 - 10 Tactical Marines w/ powerfist (sergeant), plasma gun, plasma cannon and drop pod
235 - 10 Tactical Marines w/ powerfist (sergeant), meltagun, multi-melta and drop pod

335 - 10 Sternguard Veterans w/ 10 combi-weapons and drop pod
180 - Dreadnought w/ heavy flamer, assault cannon and drop pod w/ deathwind
180 - Dreadnought w/ heavy flamer, assault cannon and drop pod w/ deathwind

120 - Predator w/ side sponson lascannons
120 - Predator w/ side sponson lascannons
125 - Vindicator w/ siege shield