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So with all the recent talk about the Doom of Malantai effecting units in transports (since they are still on the table?).

Does that also mean that if my transport moves over dangerous terrain that the unit inside is subject to dangerous terrain tests? They are technically there and nothing in the vehicle rules (that I have found) stops them from taking this test.

CptZach wrote:So with all the recent talk about the Doom of Malantai effecting units in transports (since they are still on the table?).

Does that also mean that if my transport moves over dangerous terrain that the unit inside is subject to dangerous terrain tests? They are technically there and nothing in the vehicle rules (that I have found) stops them from taking this test.

The terrain rules refer to models. None of the models in your embarked units are moving through terrain.

CptZach wrote:So with all the recent talk about the Doom of Malantai effecting units in transports (since they are still on the table?).

Does that also mean that if my transport moves over dangerous terrain that the unit inside is subject to dangerous terrain tests? They are technically there and nothing in the vehicle rules (that I have found) stops them from taking this test.

-Sig- Troll much?

No, the DoM doesn't affect them because they are on the table, it affects them because the rules on page 66 tell you how to determine range to and from an embarked unit for anything other than shooting.

Gwar! wrote:

CptZach wrote:So with all the recent talk about the Doom of Malantai effecting units in transports (since they are still on the table?).

Does that also mean that if my transport moves over dangerous terrain that the unit inside is subject to dangerous terrain tests? They are technically there and nothing in the vehicle rules (that I have found) stops them from taking this test.

-Sig- Troll much?

No, the DoM doesn't affect them because they are on the table, it affects them because the rules on page 66 tell you how to determine range to and from an embarked unit for anything other than shooting.

I'm just confused...

So DoM effects them but they are not considered to be on the table?

The *models* are not on the table

the unit can, however, be meaured to.

CptZach wrote:I'm just confused...

So DoM effects them but they are not considered to be on the table?

DoM affects them because:
1) It's not a psychic power.
2) It's not a shooting attack.
3) The rules on page 66.

It affects them for the same reason a KFF or a Commissar Lord's Stubborn Bubble work from transports. The models are not on the table, but they can be measured to. The DoM doesn't need LoS, it just has to be in range.

On a Doom-related tangent - Gwar, have you ever FAQ'ed morale checks for transported units? They're not a new thing, as a plasma-equipped squad can inflict 25% casualties on itself while transported, and a small squad with an atatched psyker can conceivably do the same. Similarly, a unit in a building can be forced to take a morale check by a template weapon.


VVVVVV
BRB, p66 - "to or from"

Again, sorry if I am wrong, since I'm not great with rules, but doesn't the rulebook only give a way to measure from models in transports and not too them?

Yes, but so as to hopefully avoid an encounter with a pair of rusty spoons (i.e., I would rather gouge out my own eyes then read through that again), I suggest you search for the related Doom thread and parse through that. It's fairly plain that the Doom can indeed affect units inside a transport.

-Yad

Again, sorry if I am wrong, since I'm not great with rules, but doesn't the rulebook only give a way to measure from models in transports and not too them?

Ask yourself this: A Farseer in a Wave Serpent that is within 24" of psychic hood. Is he effected by the hood? Or doesw the vehicle mean he can cast pyschic powers unperturbed? What about with in 12" of a creature with Shadow (lets assume he doesn't have runes of witnessing to not open that can of worms).

FlingitNow wrote:

Again, sorry if I am wrong, since I'm not great with rules, but doesn't the rulebook only give a way to measure from models in transports and not too them?

Ask yourself this: A Farseer in a Wave Serpent that is within 24" of psychic hood. Is he effected by the hood? Or doesw the vehicle mean he can cast pyschic powers unperturbed? What about with in 12" of a creature with Shadow (lets assume he doesn't have runes of witnessing to not open that can of worms).

Well the first one you measure from the psychic hood so there are rules for that. (I'm pretty sure)

I am not sure of the way the rules are worded for Shadow (itW). So I can't comment on that.

Well the first one you measure from the psychic hood so there are rules for that. (I'm pretty sure)

So why wouldn't those same rules work for Doom?

Rules for shadow:

"Any enemy psyker that takes a pyschic test with 12" of a Tyrabnid with the Shadow un the Warp special rules must..."

Rules for Doom:

"At the begining of every shooting phase, including the foe's every non-vehicle enemy unit of the doom of Malan'tai..."

So I really don't see the confusion.

My guess the warp effect ripples like a stone in a pond and those tuned into its range do not effect the insides of the vehicle and hence tap into the warp.

But one can argue until one is blue in the face really either way.

CptZach wrote:Well the first one you measure from the psychic hood so there are rules for that. (I'm pretty sure

Yes, but where are you measuring *to*? You need to measure FROM the psychic hood TO the model- but the model is embarked in the vehicle. This is why it is exactly the same as determining if the unit is within X" for Dooms power.

This is why you were told to refer to the rules stating you can measure TO or FROM the vehicle

The psychic hood example has convinced me that the wargear works on units in a transport.


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Gwar! wrote:

CptZach wrote:I'm just confused...

So DoM effects them but they are not considered to be on the table?

DoM affects them because:
1) It's not a psychic power.
2) It's not a shooting attack.
3) The rules on page 66.

It affects them for the same reason a KFF or a Commissar Lord's Stubborn Bubble work from transports. The models are not on the table, but they can be measured to. The DoM doesn't need LoS, it just has to be in range.

Where does it state that shooting attacks can't target units in a transport. It doesn't that I can find, but saying that most shooting attacks require LOS which you can't draw LOS to the unit. This is why I believe that the Vibro Cannon which doesn't require LOS and states in very similar language that any unit under the 36" line is hit by d6 hits. I think that just saying shooting attacks don't work, while is probably correct in most cases, might not fit all the time. The Vibro Cannon fluff wise actually makes sense as it is a sonic attack. I can hear those cars with the base up driving down my road and I sit about 300 ft from the road. Surely a sonic weapon something much more lethal should be able to affect units in transports. Granted they should probably get a 3+ cover save or something like that.

sbeasley wrote:Where does it state that shooting attacks can't target units in a transport. It doesn't that I can find, but saying that most shooting attacks require LOS which you can't draw LOS to the unit.

Shooting targets models, for checking range and LoS. A transported unit has no models on the table, so you fail both checks. A unit that ignored LoS (like a Hive Guard) would also fail, as it couldn't measure to a model to check range.

While the Vibro Canon doesn't require to check for LOS I see what you mean for Range, which it does say Model, in the shooting sequence. My question is that does the Vibro Canon override that generic rule with it's own specific rule on determining range by checking that the line passing through the unit to determine if it is hit. This is using the same language as DoM as how to determine if the unit is hit is it not? It's muddy, yes I know.


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Vibro Canon aside. How do you take wounds on models that aren't on the table? If the model dies it specifically states that it must be removed. How is this done if the model isn't even in play since there is a difference between model and unit? Yes it is being picky, and I'm biased in order to protect my units in transports. But I wanted to pose the question anyway.

Vibro cannons hit "any unit the line passes through". They don't specifically measure to an embarked unit, unlike the Doom, so they can't use that clause on BRB p66 and just ding the transport.

As for removing casualties - the same as you do for template weapons firing into buildings (which is helpfully undefined in the rulebook).

Vibro Canon aside. How do you take wounds on models that aren't on the table? If the model dies it specifically states that it must be removed. How is this done if the model isn't even in play since there is a difference between model and unit? Yes it is being picky, and I'm biased in order to protect my units in transports. But I wanted to pose the question anyway.

Yes can of worms unfortunately not a can of worms that stops the Doom from working because it is an existent can of worms caused by unit's firing Gets Hot! weapons from transports... Not to mention models taking damage from vehicle explodes results.