Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So, this list is based off the leaked codex, and as such is a tentative/hypothetical list, although, should the leak prove accurate, this is what I'd like my list to look like.

Blood Angels - 1850

HQ...180 Points
Astorath the Grim...180 Points

Troops...820 Points
1st Squad (Tactical)...175 Points
-Base Cost
-5 Space Marines
-Flamer
-Multi-Melta
-Power Weapon

2nd Squad (Tactical)...185 Points
-Base Cost
-5 Space Marines
-Meltagun
-Plasma Cannon
-Power Weapon

3rd Squad (Tactical)...195 Points
-Base Cost
-5 Space Marines
-Plasmagun
-Lascannon
-Power Weapon

4th Squad (Assault)...265
-Base Cost
-5 marines
-Flamer x2
-Infernus Pistol
-Thunder Hammer

Dedicated Transport...660 Points
Storm Harbinger...170
-Base Cost.
-TL Meltagun
-HK Missile x2

Storm Harbinger...170
-Base Cost
-TL Meltagun
-HK Missile x2

Storm Harbinger...170
-Base Cost
-TL Meltagun
-HK Missile x2

Storm Harbinger...150 Points
-Base Cost
-TL Plasmagun

Fast Attack...190 Points
Land Speeder Squadron...190 Points

Speeder 1... 90 Points
-Base Cost
-Typhoon Missile Launcher

Speeder 2...100 Points
-Base Cost
-Multi-Melta
-Assault Cannon

So, as you can see, I placed a fair amount of emphasis on ranged firepower in the list. I took Astorath as my HQ, because I don't want to worry about Rage affecting any of my units. The general plan is to use the Harbingers to rush my Tac squads to objectives or advantageous fire points, dump the squad out, and then provide close air support. I think between all the TL Melta-guns, the HK Missile, and whats in the squads, that there's more than enough anti-tank firepower, and plenty anti-infantry power from all the assault cannons.

Astorath rides in the Plasmagun Harbinger with the Assault Squad. I'll use the unit as a counter-charge force, swooping in to assault enemies trying to close on my positions.

I know the heavy/special weapons are a little strange, as is the Speeder squadron. I'm more of a fluffy player than a super-competitive one, and this is how the squads and Speeders I own are already configured, since maximum meltas gets dry and boring. The probable monetary cost of all those Harbingers makes me wary of buying more competitive.

So, comments and critiques, if you please.

I wrote this in my post in the BA Tactics thread, but I'll put it here as well - other than using Storm Harbingers, you're not doing anything that you can't do as well or better or cheaper in a regular SM army.

You already recognize your issues with the heavy/special weapons, so I won't get into that in detail save that your Tac squads seem really unfocused. I don't think that Harbingers particularly lend themselves to how you want to use the Tac Squads - if your plan is to drop them off at objectives, you've still got one turn where your heavy weapons can't fire - same as if you'd gotten the squads there via Drop Pod or Rhino. I understand you wanting to use the Harbingers as gunships to defend the objectives after you've dropped the Tac squads, but I think you'd be better off using the BA Rhinos. Overcharge the engines, go fast to get to the objective, and pop smoke so that the disadvantages of overcharging the engines are negated. This way, you can keep the Tac Squads in the Rhinos and use them as bunkers to shoot from. And 3 Rhinos would save you ~400 points to go into other units.

I think you're thinking about this army the wrong way. I know it's easy to think of it in terms of a regular SM army, but you're losing out on so many of the things that make a BA army interesting. Rather than focusing on defending objectives and counterattacking, I think you need to change the focus to being on the offensive. I don't think that the basic units you have in this list is wrong, per se, but I think how you're planning to use them, is.

For example, Jawaballs posted a test list on his site where he's got 3 Tac Squads in Drop Pods and 2 AM Squads in Harbingers. The key here is that he's giving his Tac Squads Locator Beacons so that the Harbingers can deep strike within 6" of the Tac Squads and deliver the AM Squads with accuracy. I think that using Rhinos like I described above for your army along with Locator Beacons would make your Tac Squads more resilient and allows you to take the attack to the enemy with better accuracy.

Death By Monkeys wrote:I wrote this in my post in the BA Tactics thread, but I'll put it here as well - other than using Storm Harbingers, you're not doing anything that you can't do as well or better or cheaper in a regular SM army.

True. But I love the concept of the Harbinger.

You already recognize your issues with the heavy/special weapons, so I won't get into that in detail save that your Tac squads seem really unfocused. I don't think that Harbingers particularly lend themselves to how you want to use the Tac Squads - if your plan is to drop them off at objectives, you've still got one turn where your heavy weapons can't fire - same as if you'd gotten the squads there via Drop Pod or Rhino. I understand you wanting to use the Harbingers as gunships to defend the objectives after you've dropped the Tac squads, but I think you'd be better off using the BA Rhinos. Overcharge the engines, go fast to get to the objective, and pop smoke so that the disadvantages of overcharging the engines are negated. This way, you can keep the Tac Squads in the Rhinos and use them as bunkers to shoot from. And 3 Rhinos would save you ~400 points to go into other units.

I don;t really understand you're comment about not being able to fire the heavy weapons for a turn. No matter what transport I use, I won;t be able to shoot the heavy weapon. Besides, I'm going to wanr to run the squad into cover. With a Harbinger, providing I don;t move flat out, I still will get some heavier firepower to use than with a Rhino moving at any speed.

I think you're thinking about this army the wrong way. I know it's easy to think of it in terms of a regular SM army, but you're losing out on so many of the things that make a BA army interesting. Rather than focusing on defending objectives and counterattacking, I think you need to change the focus to being on the offensive. I don't think that the basic units you have in this list is wrong, per se, but I think how you're planning to use them, is.

Again, not sure what your saying. I'm pretty sure an airborne assault (or at least, the tabletop equivalent), coming in guns blazing on a target is pretty offensive. At least, that's what my time in the Army taught me. Besides, the point is that it's a shooty army, contradictory to the conventional wisdom concerning Blood Angels. Being any more offensive with it (charging for assault) would render many of the heavy weapons useless, and strip the list of part of it's firepower.

For example, Jawaballs posted a test list on his site where he's got 3 Tac Squads in Drop Pods and 2 AM Squads in Harbingers. The key here is that he's giving his Tac Squads Locator Beacons so that the Harbingers can deep strike within 6" of the Tac Squads and deliver the AM Squads with accuracy. I think that using Rhinos like I described above for your army along with Locator Beacons would make your Tac Squads more resilient and allows you to take the attack to the enemy with better accuracy.

Or, I can fly in with drop ships, not have to worry about any deep striking (i.e. 100% accuracy), bring more heavy and special weapons while maintaining superior mobility over many armies . Also, Harbingers have superior speed and armor to the Rhino, so I don;t know what you mean about 'more resilience.'

Commander Endova wrote:I don;t really understand you're comment about not being able to fire the heavy weapons for a turn. No matter what transport I use, I won;t be able to shoot the heavy weapon. Besides, I'm going to wanr to run the squad into cover. With a Harbinger, providing I don;t move flat out, I still will get some heavier firepower to use than with a Rhino moving at any speed.

But see, that's my point - no matter what transport you use, you're not setting up your heavy weapon any earlier - consequently, why not save the points. When you're buying a Harbinger, you're paying for 2 things - transport capacity and firepower. And because you're getting both rather than one or the other, you're paying a premium for it. Let's just say instead of running a Harbinger, you run a Rhino. That frees up 135 points for dedicated firepower. That's a Baal Predator or 2 Land Speeders or 3 Attack bikes.

Commander Endova wrote:Again, not sure what your saying. I'm pretty sure an airborne assault (or at least, the tabletop equivalent), coming in guns blazing on a target is pretty offensive. At least, that's what my time in the Army taught me. Besides, the point is that it's a shooty army, contradictory to the conventional wisdom concerning Blood Angels. Being any more offensive with it (charging for assault) would render many of the heavy weapons useless, and strip the list of part of it's firepower.

I'm not saying that an airborne assault isn't. But that's not what you're proposing to use the Harbinger for. You're proposing to use the Harbinger to deliver a unit that won't be in position to fire for another round. In the limited time-scope of 40k rounds, that's not necessarily an "assault" - seems to me, that's taking up a position. When I talk about using the BA offensively, I'm talking about deep striking into your opponent's deployment to disrupt their battle plan. You're talking about taking and defending objectives. I'm talking about assaulting your opponent such that they don't get a chance to even try to take objectives.

Commander Endova wrote:Or, I can fly in with drop ships, not have to worry about any deep striking (i.e. 100% accuracy), bring more heavy and special weapons while maintaining superior mobility over many armies . Also, Harbingers have superior speed and armor to the Rhino, so I don;t know what you mean about 'more resilience.'

But by doing this, you're starting your Harbingers on the board and giving your opponent the opportunity to attack them before they're able to deploy their payload and get into position. By deep striking, you deny them this. And while Harbingers have superior speed and armor to the Rhino, Harbingers have no fire points. You can't bunker up in a Harbinger. I'm not talking about the resilience of the Rhino or the Harbinger. I'm talking about the Resilience of the Tac Squad once you place it on the objective. A Tac Squad in a Rhino sitting on an objective will last longer against enemy attacks than a Tac Squad on foot on the objective.

Here's the thing - I said it before, and I'll say it again. With the exception of the Harbingers, you're really not doing anything in this army you can't do with a SM army. You might as well wait to see if GW rules that all SM Chapters can get Harbingers. You'll do better running this list with a vanilla SM army. Heck, the only real reason Astorath is in the army is to remove Red Thirst. If you did this as a vanilla army, you could get an HQ that's nearly as effective for half the price.

Listen, you asked for C&C - I'm giving it. If you're locked into this list, then you don't need to ask for it.

Well after a quick look over, I would have to say I agree with dropping the heavy weapons on your squads. I doubt they will get any use until turn 3-4 (Trust me I know my fast skimmers )

After that I would have to say drop all the HK missiles they are a huge point expense and you are not lacking in the anti-armor devision.


With all the extra points saved I would get one squad with jump packs to act as a counter charge. Also being able to DS a Harbinger and have a squad pop out of them and assault on the same turn will be priceless if you play against Necrons, Tau, IG, or even Chaos (take that Oblits!).