Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm going magic heavy, something along the following lines:

Malagor, the Dark Omen
Slugtongue, Lord of the Black Harvest
Bray Shaman, lvl 2, Hagtree fetish, dispel scroll
Bray Shaman, lvl 2, Shard of the Herdstone
10 Ungor Raiders
10 Ungor Raiders
6 Centigors w/Sire of a Thousand Young, w/manbane standard
5 Harpies
5 Harpies
Razorgor chariot
Razorgor chariot
Cygor
Jabberslythe

What say you, Dakka?

On paper I like the Jabberslythes more than any other of their rare slots. i'd take two of them.

My LGS sold out before I got there Monday afternoon, so not really sure what's going on

To sum up the list: ultra-min core (guessing the centigor count somehow), 1+ harpies, 2+ chariots, max monsters, max magic ftw?

Looks like you're hitting on the book's initial strong points I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on the list and the choices you've made, particularly in regards special characters and your rare selection. The gorgon is a tank, but I may agree with you, cygor + jabber for maximum utility vs a variety of opponents.

- Salvage

Slugtongue looks decent. I am interested to see how he is going to work out. You may want more Ungor Raiders, though.

The "army" seems to be missing from the army list.

I see 4 characters, 5 flanking units (Raiders, Centigors, Harpies), 2 supporting units (Razorgor Chariots) & 2 monsters. The army has no rank and file for the rest of the units to work around.

@Sarge: The Cygor goes really well with my list's leadership-fu. In addition, he's a stone thrower. I'm giving him a try. Certainly hard to beat a flying rank breaker though.

@Boss_Salvage:

My theory of this list is that it's a modified blaster list. You shoot magic at things, while cringing away from fighting. The Jabberslythe, Cygor and Razorgor chariots are your primary countercharge units, while the Centigors can do bunker duty (with MR 2) or be another countercharge unit (ws 5, s 5, hatred, 2 attacks each, medium counter charge)

@PlusARGON:

I've seen amazing things from Slugtongue in the few games I've seen him tried in. I have trouble imagining a Beastman list w/out him. The less ranked units the enemy has the better. Imagine him vs. a Skaven list with a bunch of weapon teams. Plus there's the ever popular boxcars result to kill the enemy's big nasty. Even after deployment, he's a level 2 caster and he can challenge with his regenerate if you are trying to survive a Big Nasty's charge.

@RantheCid:

Huh? Why would I put Rankk and File in the field? I don't get it.

40kenthusiast wrote:
@RantheCid:

Huh? Why would I put Rank and File in the field? I don't get it.

What are you going to do against armies with multiple blocks of heavy infantry?

The list does not have any units able to to face to face with opposing infantry blocks. The best option the list has is a combo charge with the Jabberslythe & a Razorgor chariot. Might work once per game, but I don't see it as a reliable practice.

The way I think of it is "what are multiple units of heavy infantry going to do to me?" there's nothing they can catch. The bunker skirmishers can just hang out outside of charge range. The chariots/monsters threat a combo charge hard enough to deter the infantry from marching into position, the Jabberslythe restricts their movements and they spend the game taking damage from magic without getting to fight.

Admittedly this is theory, but while I'm far from firm on my admiration for this list I'm fairly unshakable in my contempt for fighting infantry. They are bad. Fighting monsters (m6, 3 wounds) can work. Fighting R&F just have to hope the enemy is willing to fight them.

We seem to be playing different games....

Have you been using the new Lore? I have been skeptical about it. Although, I can imagine that if you ever got the summon creature one off it would make things pretty hilarious.

A knight heavy army or equivalent will run you to the ground in two turns.

You simply have no staying power and no counter-assault power. Anything that can catch you will destroy you easily.

@cypher: The answer to that concern, at least at face value, is the Traitor Kin spell in the new Lore. Forcing the mounts to attack the riders would work wonders against a mounted force for a few reasons. First, the enemy has to decide if they want to stop that, or the other magic you will throw at the units; second, with a mobile force like this, it should be too hard to give the enemy the run around while they get pelted with magic. So then what if they go for the casters around the Herdstone? Well there is a (presumably) just-as-maneuverable unit able to support (namely the Centigors or the Jabberslythe)

PS: I don't mean to assume anything 40kenthusiast. Correct me if I am wrong...

Not to mention slugtongue is in the army, which means, when they plop a knight army down, they should be losing somewhere around 2-3 knights out of half of the units within 36" of slugtongue, before the game even starts.

It's too bad Slugtounge can't use the Nurgle Lore... That would be the cherry on top.

I actually thought I had some counterattack. I've got Razorgor chariots, a Cygor, a Jabberslythe....

A typical blitz has 3 Cav elements and a flying monster, sound right?

Enemy gets first turn, lurches forward, flying monster hits up a flank.

My turn, we try and burn down the flying monster, while getting the chars into position to flee successfully if he charges. Chariots/monsters were deployed to make sure he didn't just land right in our faces.

We also use harpy redirectors on 2 of the knight units, threat a countercharge with the Centigors/Razorgor chariots on the remaining one if it keeps coming. Jabber and Cygor position for counter work.

Most likely on my enemy's next turn they try and line up charges, get Harpies out of the way, shuffle chars, etc. My turn I counter shuffle, game continues in this way. Idea is that my magic/leadership fu is strong enough to mess with the enemy.

I really don't get why people are always freaking out about heavy infantry blocks and knight blitzes.

How many armies can field worthwhile block heavy infantry? How many of those armies have MV of 5 or greater? Heavy infantry works fine against people who bring standard infantry, or play normal "traditional" warhammer. Against enemies that don't want to see combat except on their own terms? Well they don't do very well.

Everybody should know how to beat theall/mostly hammer knight armies by now. There is plenty of sacrifice units and redirects in this list to absorb the worst of the shock. Its counter assault is more than sufficient. Or is 2 chariots, 2 monsters not enough? (it certainly is IMHO, as I have run 2 Cold one chariots and 2 hydras in a DE skirmish themed list)

I agree, the cygor is awsome. What I'm skeptical on is his WS2. He only gets his reroll versus something magical. The whole moving stone thrower thing is awsome too. If your primarily using him as a stone thrower, fine. If you a hand to hand guy, the Ghorgon may be a better fit.

notabot187 wrote:I really don't get why people are always freaking out about heavy infantry blocks and knight blitzes.

How many armies can field worthwhile block heavy infantry? How many of those armies have MV of 5 or greater? Heavy infantry works fine against people who bring standard infantry, or play normal "traditional" warhammer. Against enemies that don't want to see combat except on their own terms? Well they don't do very well.

Everybody should know how to beat theall/mostly hammer knight armies by now. There is plenty of sacrifice units and redirects in this list to absorb the worst of the shock. Its counter assault is more than sufficient. Or is 2 chariots, 2 monsters not enough? (it certainly is IMHO, as I have run 2 Cold one chariots and 2 hydras in a DE skirmish themed list)

Because people who play the game against smart players know you can't "avoid" blocks of infantry. It's very simple as an infantry block player to take the board from being a 4X6 to a 4X4, or a 4X3 if you're army is small enough. Simply by putting lines of trees in the middle of the table wide enough apart so your army can fit down it, and perpendicular to the board edge, you turn the table into a bowling alley, and effectively cut out routs of escape for the enemy.

This generally can always be done, as, except for very few armies, most players want a hill on either side of the table. should you get a chance to put out 3 terrain pieces, you simply put out a line of trees parrallel to the long table edge, on one side of the perpendicular trees, to completely cut off that table side from anything that can't move freely through trees.

Angron wrote:
Because people who play the game against smart players know you can't "avoid" blocks of infantry. It's very simple as an infantry block player to take the board from being a 4X6 to a 4X4, or a 4X3 if you're army is small enough. Simply by putting lines of trees in the middle of the table wide enough apart so your army can fit down it, and perpendicular to the board edge, you turn the table into a bowling alley, and effectively cut out routs of escape for the enemy.

This generally can always be done, as, except for very few armies, most players want a hill on either side of the table. should you get a chance to put out 3 terrain pieces, you simply put out a line of trees parrallel to the long table edge, on one side of the perpendicular trees, to completely cut off that table side from anything that can't move freely through trees.

Terrainhammer?

*vomit*

Here's to terrain placement by an unbiased third party, please

- Salvage

Here are tow armies that I can see scaring off this build:
Empire and Dwarves

Why?

Guns. Lots of them. This list doesn't have strong, ranked infantry that can soak some fire. The monsters, sure, won't be afraid of Str. 4 bullets, but everything else will, and will get chewed up. Crossbowmen especially in good placement will nail those beasts to the ground. And chariots and monsters are exactly what cannon fire are for. Sustailed volleys will pin down the little guys with bad ld while war machines can focus on the monsters. As long as magic and tactics can give them enough time to kill Jaberslythes, they're good to go. I think that every army needs bodies, and this is an example.

Also, there are few of them, but there are units that, short of monsters, this list can't deal with. WhaMiotaut comes to mind are units that you can't break with hits. Chaos Knights, for example. You need bodies to kill them with res, or cannon them, or use certain lores. With their 1+ save, Traitorkin isn't enough, even giving them a -2 to their save. Also, Fear can really screw with low ld armies. Those charges won't be getting off half the time without the general nearby. And he should be inside a block of *gasp!* infantry to protect him and be a vehicle for his abilities, melee or magical. That's why I wouldn't take Malgor; his ld will be hovering somewhere off in the distance, instead of buffing his mans.

***

Now that we've got that out of the way, I do like your inclusion of Slugtongue. I'm mad Bray Shamans can't take armor/MoN anymore, so my Nurgle Shaman runs as him from now on. I like his Reg. and his beginning effect: very nasty. Centigors are also one of my favorite units. They embody, to me, part o fthe heart of Beastmen, quirky rules that work surprisingly well and have fun backstory to go with it. I just wish they cam in plastic(I converted mine from Marauder Horsemen)...*sigh*
The Cygor and Jabberslythe are both good, particularly the former. Shooting is something the Beasts needed, and the anit-magic field they create will have every wizard secon-guessing himself. And, props for not doing a Minotaur Army! It's Beastmen, not Bullmen!

In my vision of the list Malagor is rarely in the back hanging around the Herdstone. He likes to jump up near enemy units to use his "something wicked this way comes" rule and let your guys reroll their primal fury.

He relies on being t5 and a one man skirmisher sort of fellow to avoid enemy incidental shooting, and has to land behind units to avoid heavy shooting. Tactic doesn't work if they have a cannon on a hill. Then he hangs by the Herdstone with the rest of the casters in the Ungor unit.