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I’m relatively new to 40k and have purchased about 750pts of eldar and have indelibly been sucked into the realm of an all mech list. I like it but it can get dull and really has no fluff to it. I’m toying with the Idea of going another direction

1) While I’m not sure where to start I’ve seen themed ambush lists with a lot of Infiltrating/ Outflanking and deep striking units with an Alaitoc theme relying on warp spiders, swooping hawks, pathfinders and striking scorpions all for the before mentioned reasons. HQ wise I could take an Autarch geared for hawks, spiders, or scorpions. Im still puzzled as to anti-tank in this sort of list.

2) I’ve also seen Ulwthe themed foot armies running large numbers of guardians with an avatar and a seer council. This doesn’t seem as desirable in my mind but I’m still curious as to whether or not it can perform well.

3) I have heard of and seen lists of Harlequin based foot armies using the veil as a sort of moving cover screen but I’m even more skeptical as to how this would hold up on the table. I maybe wrong and it works great but I’m not sure how

While I am looking at a fluff-ish based army I am by no means committed to the idea the real aim of this is to see if I can run an effective Eldar army with little to no armor. I would be aiming for 1000pt games with this list with possible opponents including Nids, Orks, SM, and Tau.

I’m really looking for help on this one so any and all players input would really be helpful. If you've seen an army list using one of these two strategies or one with a completely different take on things I would love to hear how it works and what it uses.

I do normally play with just friends but that doesn’t mean its not competitive

Well, I think mech eldar is pretty fluffy - Saim Hann style

Anyway, do you consider jetbikes mech?

Of the units you mentioned:
Swooping Hawks - considered really bad by almost everyone.
Warp Spiders - considered bad/decent depending on who you talk to.
Striking Scorpions - hard time getting to the enemy without a transport and no fleet, plus you can't assault from wave serpents anyway, and harlequins are just better than them (fleet, can't be shot at due to Veil, can take fusion pistols to deal with mech, invu save....)
Pathfinders - Not a bad unit to hold objectives/be annoying.

I think Harlequins almost NEED a Farseer with Doom+Fortune to be strong.

I'm not an Eldar expert but if you want to go with the outflank/infiltration theme... Maybe something like this?
NOTE: This probably won't be competitive, but at least it's kind of in line with your theme

HQ
Autarch /w Warp Spider Jump Generator, Fusion Gun, chainsword, banshee mask

Autarch /w Warp Spider Jump Generator, Fusion Gun

Troops
5 Pathfinders

6 Guardian Jetbikes + Warlock with embolden, 2 Shuriken Cannons

Fast Attack
5x Warp Spiders

5x Warp Spiders

Heavy Support
2x War Walkers /w 2 scatter lasers each

2x War Walkers /w 2 scatter lasers each

= 1000 pts

It'd be, uhm, ridiculously fragile but you'd be able to keep everything in reserve, then deep strike or outflank everything on turn 2, coming in on a 2+.... (Pathfinders have scout, War Walkers have scout, so both can outflank, the Jetbikes arrive normally, and the warp spiders can deep strike or arrive normally).

It's sooooo light on troops tho, so you might want to ditch one of the Warp Spider groups + an autarch for another jetbike squadron or something. It's got very limited real anti-mech, since you don't have any fire dragons or bright lances, but at least your two fusion guns are highly accurate (BS6) and mobile, and you should be able to get side and rear shots with your mobility.... I dunno, seems like it could be fun, even if not super competitive. Test on Vassal

I do enjoy jet bikes and have used them to great effect in a list where I was packing DAs into serpents along with fire prisms. I like including jet bikes into this list it’s a good way to keep a mobile unit I considered using a Farseer in conjunction with a small jetbike squad armed with a singing spear since front armor doesn’t exist when you as mobile as the bikes are.

I’ve never used an Autarch before but I do realize they add a nice puch to whatever aspect they are incorporated in

*Sigh* I just wish the Hawks were better since they seem so agile and difficult to plan against

Also if i considered adding more pathfinders for an all Alaitoc feel, also adding more troops in what number should they be deployed is it beneficial at the 1000pt level to run a full squad?

And I normally don’t run scorpions but are they really no good with a transport I personally just have not played enough games with them to really gauge their effectiveness outside a serpent or falcon

And this list does look fun to play thanks a lot for the help

Well I've barely played Eldar personally, but everytime I see people on here or elsewhere talk about Scorpions it's almost always negative :( Maybe they do better when your opponents aren't meched up, but it seems like they will have a long walk to get to the enemy, with no transport and no fleet. If you take a transport, you become mech, and they can't assault from the transport anyway since it's not open topped.

I think Farseer on bike + Jetbikes seems like a good unit, the Autarch is mostly good for his +1 reserve roll (and I guess, that he adds some real anti-mech with his fusion gun).

I think Pathfinders are best left in multiple small groups, but someone else can correct me if I'm wrong.

Here's a - from what I remember - good post about the Eldar Elite melee choices (Harlequins, Banshees and Striking Scorpions):
http://raptor1313.blogspot.com/2009/08/eldar-elite-melee-choices-evaluated.html

Honestly, I think the big thing with Eldar armies isn't necessarily what is IN the list, it's knowing how to properly use what's in there as I am learning.

I used to run a foot-slogging Eldar way back in 3rd edition. I'm only now making headway into a mechanized list.

All the lists you've mentioned can be/are fairly fluffy. Saim-hann runs vehicles, Iyanden runs Wraithlords/Wraithguard, Alaitoc runs Rangers, Ulthwe likes Warlocks and Biel-tan runs pretty much anything.

Play some games and find a core that you like (I used to love two large Guardian squads w/Conceal, now I love two Dire Avenger units). Then experiment off of that. Since these are fun games, go ahead and have fun.

Alright I can see where not having fleet would really hurt them, and Ive used banshees in a previous mechanized list and I cannot see them surviving at all

Are swooping hawks really unusable say if an Autarch was equipped with the wings fusion gun and power weapon and possibly one of the two mask choices would this still not validate a single squad.

Also since skyleap is used during the movement phase one could keep them out of play untill late in the game then contest an objective using a minimal squad once could get several chances to use their grenade pack while not taking up too many point. I really have no clue about these two options im just looking for advice on the subject.

http://raptor1313.blogspot.com/2009/09/eldar-hall-of-shame.html

Same blog, about Hawks. If you really like Hawks, get them and try them out I guess ? A small squad isn't gonna set you back a ton points wise or $, and the models are really nice.

Guardians, Banshees and Hawks are poor units in the current metagame. For small armies you can still try a monster list of Avatar and Wraithlords backed by some small bike squads, rangers or Dire avengers to hold objectives.

Thanks for that blog, while it did crush my dreams of having Hawks in this force it is for the best. After seeing the math I know realize there are so many better options for the points they would have taken up.

I did come across this list though it was posted by Fenrix

Autarch
hawk wings, fusion gun, power weapon
110

farseer – jetbike, guide, doom, spirit stones, runes of warding, runes of witnessing
175

7 striking scorpions
exarch – claw, shadowstrike
159

5 pathfinders
120

5 pathfinders
120

5 pathfinders
120


10 warp spiders
exarch – additional spinner, withdraw
252

10 warp spiders
exarch – additional spinner, withdraw
252

10 swooping hawks
exarch – intercept, sunrifle, skyleap
257

2 war walkers – twin bright lances
180

1745

I realize this is for a much higher point game but it is using the same general strategy I could apply a similar format to the 1000pt level
The one thing that scares me about the whole format of the un-meched Eldar is where to put the anti-tank

Yeah, there really is no REAL anti-tank without mech :/

You can spam a ton of bright lance guardians I guess... but they are BS3 and kind of suck. War Walkers can take bright lances, but they are also BS3 and really fragile so taking 30 pt weapons (and probably TWO 30 pt weapons), is not so hot :(

If you want list inspiration, I'd read through the eldar lists posted here:
http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/search/label/Eldar

It's almost all mech (or at least jetbikes), but it's a really good blog and I've learned a ton from it. Stelek (blog author) can be a bit vitriolic in his critique but he posts good stuff never the less.

I actually remember him posting a mass pathfinder/harlequin/wraithlord list way back, I'll see if I can find it.

Here's one:
Harlequin's + Wraithlords /w Pathfinders - no mech at all I'm almost sure that if you asked him about this list today, he'd say it's not that great, since 2008 is "a long time ago" and a lot has changed since then. But hey, it's something.
http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/2008/10/email-grab-bag-3.html

Another one with no vehicles - Maugan Ra + Lots of Harlequins, Jetbikes, Wraithlords
http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/2009/06/eldar-build-request.html
Reading some of his more recent Eldar posts, he's moved away from the Jetbike Seer Council and started using Farseer + regular Jetbikes, so that change might make the list more applicable for the 1000 pt level (Farseer on Jetbike, A couple of Jetbike squads as troops, Wraithlords as backup).

At least MCs can be a threat in CC to vehicles (S10 + 2d6 is pretty neat for the wraithlord).

Another blog to check-out is Way of Saim Hann... and funnily enough, the very first post I see on there is about Swooping Hawks!
http://saimhann.blogspot.com/2010/02/real-swooping-hawk-army.html

More foot eldar stuff:
http://saimhann.blogspot.com/2009/10/foot-eldar.html

Eldar can be very nasty against certain opponents with Eldrad + 2 units of 3 war walkers with scatter lasers. They utterly wipe out infantry. Back them up (and give them cover) with guardians with EMLs or bright lances or a wraithlord with both. This list wipes any list that isn't an AV 12+ mech list right off the board. Guided scatter laser war walkers are fairly sick and wrong, laying 18 strength 6 hits down from 36" away and on the move.

Looks something like:

Eldrad 210 (replaceable with 2x farseers with guide, or even just one farseer with guide but you really want to be able to guide the war walkers)
10 Guardians with bright lance 110
10 Guardians with bright lance 110
10 Guardians with bright lance 110
10 Guardians with EML 100
3x war walkers with scatter lasers 180
3x war walkers with scatter lasers 180

There's some flexibility there but basically it relies on overwhelming firepower and, if necessary, sacrificial guardians to overwhelm the opponent. It's got a good model count, 4 scoring units, 4 decent anti-tank weapons, and ridiculous anti-infantry firepower. Eldrad can also fortune the war walkers in cover to make them incredibly resilient if your opponent has good long ranged anti-tank.

I realize that Eldar gunline isn't what you're trying for, but it's just about the most effective way to go for nonmech eldar at low point levels.

Thanks for the help, Im glad to get another take on the whole non mech approach the idea behind that seems solid and I couldnt agree more with you on the war walkers they can be downright nasty and I always get my points out of them when I run them.

Its by no means solid but here is a list just to get some things into perspective I just want to know if in on the right track. I feels...flimsy to me

HQ:
Autarch /w Warp Spider Jump Generator, Fusion Gun @ 105 Pts

Troops:
5 Pathfinders (Rangers) @ 120 Pts
5 Pathfinders (Rangers) @ 120 Pts

Elites
6 Harlequins (Kisses, 2 fusion guns, Troop Master, Shadowseer) @ 202Pts
6 Harlequins (Kisses, 2 fusion guns, Troop Master, Shadowseer) @ 202Pts


Fast Attack
10 Warp Spiders (Exarch Additional Spinner, Withdraw) @ 252

1001pts total

Or If I wanted to go in the Harlequins direction

HQ:
Farseer W/ Fortune@ 85

Troops:
5 Rangers @ 95
5 Rangers @ 95

Elites:
10 Harlequins W/ 2 Fusion Pistols, Shadowseer, Troup Master, Kisses @286 Pts
10 Harlequins W/ 2 Fusion Pistols, Shadowseer, Troup Master, Kisses @286 Pts

Heavy Support
1 Wraithlord W/ Flamers, Brightlance, Missile Launcher @ 155

Total @ 1002

I just dont know If either of these two lists would work I could use some help

Well, both of those lists have low model count, low firepower, and immobile troops choices. Space puppies in rhinos will be effective against both.

Eldar are flimsy no matter how you build them. Unless you go heavy mech. Warp Spiders are good anti vehicle unless it's rear AV 14. Do what you did and don't take the deep strike ability. I used to take it but it doesn't get used. Pretty much with Eldar your anti tank (without vehicles) will be fusion guns at short range and side shots on vehicles.

I wouldn't call it GOOD anti-tank... I mean, they are AP- so start out with -1 already. By the way, the Deep Strike ability on the exarch is a total waste, because in 5th edition ALL jump infantry (which Warp Spiders qualify as) can deep strike.

Agree with above s6 AP- is terrible for popping tanks. 4+ to damage and then a -1 to the result... uh no.

I run Harlies and Hawks quite often so I can comment on both of those for you.

Hawks: I love them, they are my fluff for my craftworld, but point for point they are not spectacular.

Pros:
- Bombs each round can attrition your enemy and if you happen to play T3 or horde armies, they put a hurting on.
- Land last round contest objectives or fire people off of an objective with 2-3 units of volume fire.
- Haywire grenades are great if you can survive to make contact
- Attach an Autarch and your opponent has to constantly watch their back for a Melta

Cons:
- Ridiculously over-costed
- No reason to run over 5 in a squad
- If they land and stay on the board, they die and die HARD
- S3 AP5 guns are massive failcake, 5+ to wound marines with a 3+ save.
- Did I mention a min bare bone squad is more then a Fire Prism?

Harlies: Great tricks, nasty in close combat, but way too expensive

Pros:
- Veil of Tears is friggin great
- Massive number of attacks at s4, i7, high ws, for eldar that is a hell yes
- Rending, while being mainly suck, is great for the volume of hits harlies can put out.
- Yay invuln save

Cons:
- Ridiculously over-costed
- T3 and 5+ invul goes squish real hard under fire or in CC
- Shadowseer is a must if going on foot, and since they don't get serpents that is the best way to run them
- Troupe Master just isn't worth his pile of points
- Fusion pistols look great on paper, till you explode a vehicle and half you squad dies from being T3 5++ and 3" from the tank.


K negativity aside, Harlies work great in unison with Rangers, though prob bump them up to pathfinders for the extra cover and better AP1. Take the troupe master and fusion pistols out. 9 Harlies with a seer and kisses is 250 and will do what needs to be done and if you toss the farseer in with them you now have 5++ reroll (which still fails but not as hard). Dakkalords have never impressed me, run him up the field using cover an let him soak up AT fire for his 100pt cost with a Wraithsword.