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HQ { Dakka Dakka }1500

Wolf Priest .Power Armor. Wolf Tooth Necklace,Melta Bombs
with the Grey Hunters in Rhino .Prefered Enemy-Infantry

Elite:

Dreads Don’t last long. The TL LC gets in a few shots before getting destroyed )

Dreadnought: Assault Cannon, CCW, Wolf Tooth Necklace
Dreadnought : TL Lasercannons,CCW, Wolf Tooth Necklace

Fast Attack:

( I have only used 1{ first time,deep strike} Got in 1 volley, then destroyed.)

Land Speeder with Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer
Land Speeder with Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer

Troops
Grey Hunters X 9 PowerWeapon , Banner , Mark of the Wulfen Melta Gun, Rhino. Extra Armor WP Leader .

Grey Hunters X 5: Mark of the Wulfen ,Melta Gun, Razerback TL Heavy Bolters

Grey Hunters X 5 , Mark of the Wulfen,Flamer, Razerback TL Heavy Bolters
Grey Hunters X 5 Flamer, No transport.

On table reserves, grab objectives after Carnage is over

Heavy Support:
Long Fangs X 5 2 X Missile Launchers ,LaserCannons X 2
Long Fangs X 6 3 X Missile Launchers ,Multi-melta,Laser Cannon
( I ran out of missiles is why the MM. Lasers are my firend.)

Vindicator
( I was questioned about being a Move and Fire tank.) I will have to find which books the move/fire rules are. )
Thank you for looking at my list.

Honestly, I dont know what your aiming for in terms of theme, but in a competitive environment I see you struggling, the main flaws I can identify are:

- You don't need a Wolf Tooth Necklace on the priest, with PE he should be hitting on 3+ anyways...

- I struggle to see your reasoning behind the dreads, you say they dont last long but you give them necklace's as if they'll make it into combat? even so, if they are unlikely to last long (which I dont think is accurate) you'd probably want to keep them as cheap as possible... If you want firepower I'd recommend 2x TL Autocannon, if you want anti-tank surprising then go in a pod with MM, for sheer flexibility then you cant really go wrong with Missile Launchers or an Assault Cannon?

- The Land Speeders have a good set-up, try NOT deepstriking them? Also, I'd recommend a 3rd, because as you've noticed they're not tough, multiple targets = unit redundancy

- Your two razorback squads have a pretty good set-up, generally as a rule of thumb, a flamer will work better out of a razorback but otherwise they're OK, maybe boost them up to 6 men though?

- However I struggle to see your rhino squad being of too much use tbh. I mean, they're suited for close combat (WP), yet they have a melta and no special weapon and are in a rhino (which really doesnt need Extra armour btw). I think in terms of points for punch, they could struggle to get much done... Personally, I would recommend either splitting the squad up and putting them in razorbacks, making them 9 men with a RUNE PRIEST, making them 10 men without a HQ or swapping them to bloodclaws and chucking em' in a razorback. I recognise that some of these may be 'radical' changes to what you'd planned but I think you would find them a lot more effective.

- Long Fang squad 1 has a good set-up. If you ran out of missiles for squad to then you should have really left it at 5! the MM doesnt work well with the rest and will likely struggle to be honest!

- And as for the vindicator, he struggles to fit in with your list to be honest, if I were I'd drop him for more razorbacks or swap him for a predator or dreadnought?


Sorry about being overly critical, but you did say you were having trouble and it's not too big a changes I've suggested...

regards. Dave.

Got a few comments for ya.

1) Wolfpriest with the grey hunters i would have to say a runepriest would be much more effective imo even in combat the rune priest with a force weapon and the ability to punch daemon faces in is always a good thing. Wolf preists are only really good when leading wolf guard (with alot of pf's, wc's, and the such) and bloodclaws just eh sheer number of attacks makes him more useful.

2) As for your dreads ill say use drop pods for them put them close to the enemies forces and plow into them ill drop the TW-lascannons not worth it imo. I have used the TW-lascannons in lists before because i had not other weapon load out for it at the time.

3) Landspeeders they are best used as typhoons in my experiences as they are fire magnets when i used the MM/HF load out they never made it passed the 3rd turn and when you deep strike with them they count as moving 12 inches i believe they are best used deploying with your forces and then jumping into position and opening up.

4) i dislike wolf banners they arent worth the 10 pts one time use to re-roll ones just isnt worth it imo thats 10 pts wasted imo but alot of people use them and i have yet to see it sway a cc in the favor of the SW's not saying it cant just saying its rare.

5) Your long fangs are interesting i would make them all Missile launchers i believe the multi-melta is a waste just wont be in range until its to late to really impact the battle. (lol i see what you said about running out of missile launchers) but if thats the case maybe a dakka predator can be used to fill the niche.

6) if your asking if the vindicator can move and shoot yes it can move 6 inches and shoot the demo cannon. Maybe 2 vindicators they are best used in pairs.

hope this helps.

"being overly critical" Go for it, tear me up. Better here than in a game.
I have needed the WTN on a Dread. The TL LC could have used the when terminators deep striked next to him.
I was thinking of getting rid of the 2 Dreads and the Land Speeders. I used a LS 1 time. deep striked behind a Dev unit. Made a few Kills then was destroyed.

I thought of using preditors. or LR's. I have been on the recieving end of 2 vindicators. They seem to always hit.

Hell, I wont complain!

Well a TL lascannon could only take out 1 termie, so I struggle to see the benefit there to be honest... Something such as an auto or assault cannon has better chances IMHO... and are cheaper too!

if you say you 'need' the WTN then use it, playtesting is always the most reliable method of refinement! However I still struggle to see them as much use...

Well I wouldnt blame you getting rid of the land speeder's and dreads, depending on what you replace them with... a land raiders effective but could lack support and I love Vindicators myself (i run two in my 'ideal' competitive list - http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/271856.page). both dreads and landspeeders can be useful, but it depends on how you use/equip them, same goes for their replacement really!

But yeah, vindicators are good but it would mean dropping atleast 1 Long Fang squad too, and Land Raider's are good but as I said, it depends on their role really...

Yea the TL-Lascannon Dread should be meant for killing high av tanks really has no other optimal use as for using it to kill Termies go with a Plasma cannon its the bane of Termies and then hvy flamer and clean up. Venerable dreads with plasma cannons are a real thorn in the side have used one to great success. WTN on the dreads is meh 3+ then 2+ to kill most units is good but it has only 2 attacks 3 on the charge isnt really that much but isnt a complete waste of pts.

I've been running a 7 pod SW list for a bit now & Foehammer's advice rings true.

I just played at Templecon this weekend and ended up with two losses and a tie (lucky due to time.) I ran a list with seven drop pods carrying two rune priests, two dreads, 1 unit BC & four units of Grey Hunters each with an attached Wolf Guard and one MM land speeder. Oddly enough out of the 22 players there was ANOTHER player with the same list: seven pods, two dreads, three land speeders, Njal and the rest Grey Hunters.

Lessons learned:
-four pods are great, but they really need some support in the form of land speeders or even skyclaws. Dropping four pods with 2 dreads & only 20 guys gives your opponent just enough to munch on.

-Rune Priests are great with JotWW; I killed an avatar first turn and later a carnifex first turn... still managed to lose both games.

-Blood Claws are absolutely worthless in a drop pod army; you never get the chance to charge because you didn't kill enough the previous turn when you dropped because your lousy pistols are nothing compared to Grey Hunters double tapping bolters.

-Blood Claws COULD work if you drop them later and have them charge into a CC that you set up previously by locking one of your dreads in CC. Risky though.

-The dreads serve a purpose, but think about whether you really need them. I like them, but only to tie MC up in combat or something like that.

-Wolf Guard are good for adding to your leadership, but sometimes you actually want to fall back. Hmmm, still thinking on that one.

Thinking of your list in particular:
You need to decide whether you want to go with a "pounce on him and bash his face in with assault" army or a "sit back & wear him down til he reaches you" army. Granted the long fangs are great, but your other units will be getting in their way as they close with the opponent.

Landspeeders: Above advice is correct; they die easily so I've been trying out the Typhoon who hides behind my pods & snipes. And I'm trying a single HF LSdr who also hides out behind the pods and jumps out at small units in order to allow my GHs to go after the bigger targets.

Long Fangs: Yeah melta anything is the king nowadays, but the multi-melta has such a short range. Your missile launchers & lascannons (and MM land speeders) should have dealt with anything before it gets that close.

Though I faced a similar list at templecon, (Not Macks)
Where I had a tyranid quick moving reaction force and I lost not a unit to the space dogs,

I think that it wouldve gone differently but facing a whole army in charge range with 1/2 a army of space wolves did not fare that well for the Dogs,

I don't know what I'm doing. I take advise from lots of people but don't have a direction.
The first 2 turns are to kill the preditors and other heavies. I use a lot of Lasercannons to punch armor.
A few games I could not get a longfang unit to good shooting position. Some games only 1 of the 2 units would get into position. Longfangs with MM is bad. I thought WP are good. Prefered enemy and fearless. I know there are many turny grand champions. But what works for some don't for others. Other posting input say, bring units up to 10 men. I have played :Mech SoB,BT and SW. As people can see from my list. I suck. I have never won a game.

Lascannon on dreads? Never thought that a good idea.

Yes, it is BS4. It is twin-linked. It has about 88.9% chance to hit...

But it has only 1 shot. Even the cheapest vehicle could laugh at you with its smoke launchers.

Only 1 shot. Mounted on a 120+ pts platform.

I always face transports and anti-Armor tanks. The first 2 turns it's a tank fest. Destroy the opponents anti-armor unit. Then kill the transports. Shoot the assault troops running across the table.
Transport my assault troops and get them into battle.

The Long Fang MM is a bad choice but I wanted to try it at 10pts.
Tokugawa: You can only use smoke 1 time. What cheaper vehicles? Razerbacks? Something that bolter fire can destroy? Smoke gives you a 4+ save. Will you make that 4+ save all the time. Terminators are only killed by bolters on a 1. It does happen.
I have 3 dreads, I should try them at least 1 time. Doesn't one of the dreadnoughts come equipped with TL LC and a Missile launcher? I am not defending my list. I am trying lots of stuff to see what works.

Well, you misunderstand my viewpoint... I didn't suggest you to not use dreads. They work well under current rules. You have 3? Place them all is a good idea.

My point is: las-dread is not effective.

SW has no ironclad, so droppod a tank-hunting dread has less feasibility. They would probably stand with your gunline and provide covering fire for advancing transports.

One popular build for fire supporting dread is "Rifleman":2 TL-autocannons. TL-autocannon with an assault cannon is not bad, too. They are good against infantries and light-armor vehicles. (However, such builds is not plug-and-play all the time; the player need to have enough meltas to take these dreads)

You can tell the different between their dreads and yours: yours is lack in shooting times. Remember that at a long-range engage distance like 36 or 48 inches, cover save is everywhere, everytime.

Dread are fine support unit, but not a good lascannon holder. A vendetta could score 2.15 lascannon hits per turn. Tri-las predator could got 2.22, but its mobility is not that good.

For yours las-dread, the scores is: 0.89

If you want a effective space wolf list this is what you should do (in my experiences).

1) Space wolves in rhinos are excellent the big thing right now is a SW razor-wire list but i dislike gunline lists in the new edition to much cover kills the list. To be honest i want to fight that razor-wire list i think a hybrid mech list can kill it. Speed and organization is what makes for a best offense (which most understand) try using doubles of things 2 vindicators for example. The lists i make are hybrid and i support dropping dreads from pods has worked for me pretty well ive been testing out a V-Dread armed with a plasma cannon and a hvy flamer has done pretty well. But im also coming at my enemy like a bat out of hell with rhinos and vindicators (i.e Vindicators are great fire magnets) they allow your army some pretty good movement as almost all big guns rain down on the vindicators.

2) Yea i support rapid firing into termies all day the mass rolls they have to save with kill them. If you have overwhelming number of shots or attacks thats great and is what the SW's are known for having (15 Bloodclaws charging have 60 attacks that's insane).

3) like i said before no TL-Lascannon Dread to much of a pt sink. Use a MM and DCCW and drop pod him in they are surprisingly effective. And the stuff shooting at the dread is less shots at your advancing wolves.

4) As to your win record thats rough. But look on the brighter side of things one day you will win maybe tomorrow .