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Can a Mawloc roll for it's regeneration when it's off the table, like when it's burrowed. I see no reason why not, but I'm just wondering if abilities can affect it when it's off the table, if you get what I mean.

Can someone answer this quick question?

Thanks,

Valk

No reason why it could not do so, in fact you are compelled to do so by the wording for regeneration...

It says you reroll at the beginning of your turn doesn't it? If that is the only limitation, I would say that you can roll for the regen. Even if not, you would roll for it right when you pop out again in your movement so if you got the wounds back, you would be out with the wounds back before you got fired on or assaulted.

Valkyrie wrote:Can a Mawloc roll for it's regeneration when it's off the table, like when it's burrowed. I see no reason why not, but I'm just wondering if abilities can affect it when it's off the table, if you get what I mean. <snip>

Valk

I can't remember if burrowing says it goes back into Reserves. I don't have my book with me. If you it does and if you use the INAT FAQ, then perhaps the following will apply in your situation...

INAT FAQ v3.2, page 19, section: ORGANIZING A BATTLE: MISSION SPECIAL RULES: RESERVES (PAGE 94)

RB.94B.01 – Q: Do special rules for models in Reserve still affect the game? Are models in Reserve vulnerable to special rules that affect all models?
A: Models off the table have no effect on the game unless a rule specifies otherwise [clarification]. Conversely, models off the table are not affected by any rule unless specified that it affects models off the table [clarification]. Note: abilities used before the start of the game (i.e. during deployment, etc) may always be used regardless of whether the model is on the table or not.

RB.94B.02 – Q: If a model in Reserve has an ability that occurs at the start of the turn can they arrive from Reserves and utilize that ability in the same turn?
A: No, as they are not in play at the start of their turn [clarification].
Ref: RB.09.02, SW.53C.01

Cheers,

Tac

However Tactica, the rule for Regeneration says "at the start of your turn" and "as long as the model with the regeneration biomorph is still alive".

So if a model is in Reserve at the beginning of my turn and obviously he is alive since he is in reserve, I can roll for my wound regenerations.

Brother Ramses wrote:However Tactica, the rule for Regeneration says "at the start of your turn" and "as long as the model with the regeneration biomorph is still alive".

So if a model is in Reserve at the beginning of my turn and obviously he is alive since he is in reserve, I can roll for my wound regenerations.

Brother Ramses,

It's a valid question. You have a special ability (Regeneration) that gives specific criteria (as long as it is still alive) for how and when it occurs(at the start of your turn).

However, in the example the model is also subject to a second effect (Reserves) at the same time that it would like to use the special ability (Regeneration) before it gets back on the table (at the start of your turn).

I admit, I don't have my books in front of me, but this *sounds* like what the FAQ is addressing in the second quoted FAQ point above. RB.94B.02

Are you saying this situation is different than what is quoted from the FAQ?

Please explain if you have a moment,

Tac

I would say because being in Reserves does not invalidate either of the two conditions that allow a Regeneration roll,

1. Start of your turn.
2. Model with the regeneration biomorph is still alive.

The rule does not state he needs to be on the board or in play, just that it be the beginning of your turn and that the model is alive.

edit: In addition, the turn does not start when your model gets on the board. Akin to the High King rule for Logan, the beginning your the player turn begins at the end of the other players turn.

Brother Ramses wrote:<snip> The rule does not state he needs to be on the board or in play, just that it be the beginning of your turn and that the model is alive.

edit: In addition, the turn does not start when your model gets on the board. Akin to the High King rule for Logan, the beginning your the player turn begins at the end of the other players turn.

Interesting, I think I understand your perspective. For my clarity of your position...

1. Do you believe that RB.94B.02 was ONLY written for special abilities that occur at the start of the turn AND only IF the special ability states the model must be on the field?

1.a. If you answer "yes", then why would a FAQ be needed for such a situation?

1.b. Furthermore, if you answer "yes", then do you feel the FAQ entry needs to be reworded to include the additional "...and if the special ability states the model must be on the field?" Again, it's present wording is:

RB.94B.02 – Q: If a model in Reserve has an ability that occurs at the start of the turn can they arrive from Reserves and utilize that ability in the same turn?
A: No, as they are not in play at the start of their turn [clarification].
Ref: RB.09.02, SW.53C.01

1.c. If you answer "no", then I am at a loss how this FAQ entry does not answer the question asked by the OP.

I can tell you that if my opponent demanded it be play one way or the other, it would not offend me either way. From what I can tell by the FAQ, I think the AdeptiCon officials would rule per the FAQ though.

Perhaps one of the authors will provide some insight.

Cheers,

Tac

Well we have seen a GW FAQ with the High King that shows explicitly that a model does not need to be on the board for an ability to be in affect which clearly shoots the RB.94B.02 ruling out of the water. However when needed to be clarified, the new codex trend has been to add specific wording to the entries. See Njal, Lord of Tempests and Lictor, Pheromone Trail.

In addition within the very codex in discussion we have a clear and concise precedent set for rules entries that show when a model must be on the table (above-mentioned Lictor) and when they only need to be alive (Hive Commander, Alien Cunning, and "It's after me!".

I think the argument is still going on as to whether the Hive Commander is 'Alive' or not in game terms when in reserve.

Personally I don't see why he shouldn't use his rules, along with your mawloc, but YMMV.

Discuss with opponent beforehand, argue, D6.

Brother Ramses,

For whatever it's worth, I think the Regenerating Mawloc should be allowed to regenerate while off table and in reserve. This has nothing to do with rules, just my logic as a player and fan of the 40K game.

To me, the Mawloc has 'entered the game' already. Sure it can go back into Reserve, but once it has been fielded and now going 'back and fourth' from Reserve to Deep Strike, it's going to take wounds and if it doesn't die, it seems like while burrowed, it would be licking its wounds and that's exactly when it would make the most sense to Regenerate before it's next onslaught. Furthermore, if it can take its wounds to Reserve, it makes sense to me that it could Regenerate while in reserve.

My personal feelings aside, what seems logical to me vs. interpretations of a common set of rules by which all armies must abide can often be different. Especially in tournament situations. Thus the INAT FAQ.

Perhaps this specific question could stand a ruling in the INAT FAQ on its next round. In such a case, I would be in support of the model Regenerating while in Reserve.

...The Mawloc could have stood a bit more playtesting before the rules were put to print. It seems GW's 'rulez boyz' were out playing 'kick da gretchin' when the 'mad doc' created the rules for this one.

Tac

I think the bigger problem here is the lack of clarity about the phrase "at the start of your turn". In the new codex tyranids have serval actions which take place at the start of your turn. Regen, reserves and synapse checks don't occur in any pre-determined order. This creates a lot of confusion.

For the moment I think an acceptable rule compromise would be to deepstrike the mawloc first, then roll for regen.

That would be reasonable if in mutual agreement with your opponent, but there will be one that says, "Your turn has already started you can't roll regen!".....LOL!

Like I pointed out Tactica, the INAT FAQ has been trumped by the GW Space Wolf FAQ in regard to abilities for models off the board. So while someone could rattle the FAQ in my face, I would just show them the SW FAQ in defense of using the High King. So yes, some of those issues INAT need to be revised to take into account current rulings and and new codex that comes out.

Burrow doesn't put the mawloc back into reserves, it just removes it from the table and it is deployed again the next turn.

So it's neither on the table nor in reserves, in tunnel-limbo it isn't effected by the reserves rule stated earlier (since it is not in reserve) so it can regenerate

Grundz wrote:Burrow doesn't put the mawloc back into reserves, it just removes it from the table and it is deployed again the next turn.

So it's neither on the table nor in reserves, in tunnel-limbo it isn't effected by the reserves rule stated earlier (since it is not in reserve) so it can regenerate

I'll have to disagree, the book writing says 'place it back in reserve'. If it wasn't for the next sentance where it is granted the ability to automatically arrive via deep strike I would think it would have to roll again.

Grundz wrote:Burrow doesn't put the mawloc back into reserves, it just removes it from the table and it is deployed again the next turn.

So it's neither on the table nor in reserves, in tunnel-limbo it isn't effected by the reserves rule stated earlier (since it is not in reserve) so it can regenerate

Utterly incorrect, the rules *specifically* state it is placed back into reserve.