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Hey Dakka, I just bought some of these with the goal of being a bit more tactical on my skimmer heavy weapons choices.

Previously I've mostly taken shuriken cannons because of the cheap point cost and the TL 3 str 6 shots, but I was wondering if I was missing something important.
I figure serpents should only take cheap stuff because their role is to dump those 'shees/dragons/etc. out where they can do the most damage, which means flat out, which means no shooting.

Am I missing something important here? Starcannons vs. MEQ? Rocket launchers vs. everything? If you have any mathhammer that would be helpful and so would tactics advice (36" rng vs 48", etc.)


Cannons are so boring...I want to try something new but it's so hard to justify the point cost (or I'm just a cheapskate ).

Thanks!

Well, Wave Serpents should really be doubling as an anti-tank vehicle. I almost never run them with anything other than Eldar Missile Launchers. Bright Lances if I need anti tank.


If you only use them as a transport, cool, but...eh, IMO, you're missing out on a big eldar strength.

Cool, cool. I'll keep that in mind.

So far I've been facing nids and tau, and the 3 str 6 shots are doing well for me (even against the skimmers, because after I flat out and dump the cargo I just fly to the rear armor and light 'em up... but then again that could be because of poor tactics on the part of the tau player)

Should I still go with the rockets and use the tl blast on the nids? Would that provide greater value?

Edit: Does the pinning effect matter much in the decision to go with the missiles? Because against nids at least pinning is virtually useless.

Thx

The only weapon I never use is the T/L Starcannon, all the rest of them have uses depending in the unit they are carrying and the points you have to play with.

The weapon I use the most is the T/L Scatter Laser, its pretty cheap and only a bit more than the T/L Shuriken Cannons but gets another shot and most importantly another 12" range. They are pretty good against Rhinos and the 36" range and 4 shots means they can provide some annoyance to infantry units as well (try and use them to finish off units after they get hit by Prisms etc or use 3-4 Serpents at one target to make a bigger dent in it). Off the top of my head they mathhammer out to be about the same as Starcannons against Marines and actually come out ahead if they are in cover + are much better for AT with 2 extra shots, combined with the price means Starcannons are not normally a good idea.

I run T/L Bright Lances when I can, they cost quite a few points but quite often I need the additional anti tank they provide. T/L EML and Shuriken Cannon is another decent loadout, moving 6" you end up with a pretty decent light anti-tank loadout but you can also move 12" and still fire everything effectively if you are going after infantry. However I never take these loadouts on Serpents which are going to be carrying things like Fire Dragons (unless I have points to burn, which is rare) because they are much more likely to die when dropping units off in close, better to make use of the range you have.

The only other loadout I use occasionally is the T/L Shuriken Cannons. Mostly I just use this if I am short on points but for things like Fire Dragons they aren't a bad idea as you quite often will be moving them flat out to get the 4+ save so spending points on weapons isn't always a good idea.

I should probably point out that I play a completely mech army, usually at 1750-1850 points and all my Serpents have Spirit Stones. Basically I try and select the weapons for my Serpents based on what my army needs the most (for example if I'm running 3 Fire Dragon units then I'm not usually going to take Bright Lances and just take a mix of EML and Scatter Lasers, but with 1-2 units of Fire Dragons or if I'm running a JetCouncil list then I will obviously take more Bright Lances).

TL EML and shuriken cannon. This allows you to move 12" and fire the EML as s8, or fire both the EML as s4 and the cannon. High degree of mobility combined with range and the option to effectively engage anything but heavy vehicles.

From my (limited) Experience, You can usually use Wave Serpent weapons to augment your army, however you need. It seems that most people either go Scatter laser, or EML/Bright Lance. Luckily, your magnetizing them, so you will never have a permanent "option".

I usually double my Transports as AT platforms, using BLs, or EMLs.

Eldar are weak in overall in the long range AT department. Twin-linked EMLs, are a fantastic weapon in general. Ap4 blast, 48 inch range, an awesome weapon you can use 'defensively' (while moving 12 inches with the tank), along with an underslung Shuriken cannon.

If you want to spam s6 shots, get a Scatterlaser, and an underslung Sh. cannon. You can only move 6 inches, but Wave serpents are pretty hard to pop on side and front armor, so you should do pretty well. Never use starcannons though, they are pretty much useless with the amount of cover available to high armor value units. Dropping a 3+ save, to a 4+ save, is nigh to a waste of valuable points.

Eldar transports eat up more points than they are worth, especially when you choose BL upgrades, so I am usually using EML instead. Wraithlords are much better at making use of BL in general.

Always thought BL+Shuriken Cannon was the standard...

As those two weapons serve entirely different purposes, I cannot see how that would be the case.

Shuriken cannons are suited for hitting rear armor, and infantry. Bright lances are suited for taking out vehicles, that your Shuriken cannon will be completly useless against.

TBTH, getting any two weapons besides EML (for the defensive blast), with an underslung Sh. cannon, take away the advatage of mobility that Eldar need to be effective.

Standard for me will be EML, until the next codex. I have no idea what universal standard would be. My vague guess would be a TL Sh. cannon upgrade, purely for cost reasons. If all you want your tanks to do is deliver their troops, there is basically no reason why you should be using fancy guns.

To keep my Fire dragon squads cheap, I will usually take a TL Sh cannon upgrade, so they represent a small portion of my overall army.

Duality, allowing the unit to perform two different roles.

+ S6 is pretty decent vs side-armor or light mech.

Stelek seems to be a pretty big proponent of the BL/Cannon combo anyhow, at least for DA units (I think for FD carriers it makes more sense to go SH. Cannon only since the cargo packs serious anti-tank, and as such the unit has some duality already).

http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/2009/12/eldar-analysis-different-way-of-doing.html
http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/2009/12/eldar-review-wave-serpent.html

Another view, same conclusion;
http://raptor1313.blogspot.com/2009/06/eldar-grav-tank-primer.html

I dunno, not saying it's definitely the best or anything, but it makes sense to me.

I've got to say I'm a fan of a ScatterLaser or if points are availible EML & S.Cannon.

in genral I'm not a fan of bright lances current/local meta-game i don't see enough AV13-14 to make them worth it

I'm avoiding single (twin-linked) shots and keep it plain and cheap.
Therefore, my Serpents get stones, and shuricannons or scatter lasers.

Flexibility helps, but since you're going to have several Wave Serpents and most of what they'll transport will be anti-infantry, you should stock up on anti-tank. Besides, where else are you going to get Twin-Linked Bright Lances?

Of course, where Fire Dragons are concerned, go for Twin-Linked Scatter Lasers!

You need long ranged anti tank in the eldar army, it is a pity they are overpriced here, but sometimes you just have to take them.

Hence I suck up the 45pts for bright lances out of necessity. they are worth about 30pts by weapons comparison but 15pts to give your army some way of touching a Land Raider across the board is a price worth paying.

Nurglitch wrote:Besides, where else are you going to get Twin-Linked Bright Lances?

Not a valid answer in itself, where else in the Eldar list are you going to get twin linked anything in regards to heavy weapons.

I never take bright lances as they are overpriced.
Moreover, if you hit there is 50% chance for glancing and a 33% chance for penetrating a heavy tank (AV 12 or higher).
This is not a good prospect.

Orlanth wrote:You need long ranged anti tank in the eldar army, it is a pity they are overpriced here, but sometimes you just have to take them.

Hence I suck up the 45pts for bright lances out of necessity. they are worth about 30pts by weapons comparison but 15pts to give your army some way of touching a Land Raider across the board is a price worth paying.

Nurglitch wrote:Besides, where else are you going to get Twin-Linked Bright Lances?

Not a valid answer in itself, where else in the Eldar list are you going to get twin linked anything in regards to heavy weapons.

? Farseer + guide + Vypers or warwalkers = Many TL-Heavy weapons

Orlanth:

It's a perfectly valid question, since the answer is either Tri's answer, or "Wave Serpents, that's where".

Thanks for the informative responses.

I usually face tau and nids. I tend to only use stones when fighting tau, because two flat-out fortuned skimmers don't shoot and usually die right after dumping the cargo (I don't want to take my sweet time getting across the board vs. tau). Nids however I can definitely see the EML and the SC.

What do you think? AM I DOIN IT RITE