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I play orks, and I love the idea of an army of speedfreeks. Led by wazzdakka or a biker boss, buggies and warbikes everywhere, and as many rokkits as I can fit into the list...thing is, bikers are $50 for three bikes. This isn't unique to orks, space marine bikes cost about the same, I wanted to ask, those who ran biker armies, did you find them fun enough to justify shelling out that much for a box of three figures? I can justify spending fifty dollars on a tank or a walker, or on terminator armor, but not on bikes.

I have a speed freak list using 13 bikes and a RW list using over 20. Both are extremely fun and win the vast majority of their games.

I built an all jetbike Eldar list for around $750 and sold it for $750 so yes, the army was definitely worth the cost.

It was highly competitive too.

I just dont see how a bike army deals with a horde army (i know they have alot of TL shots but then your within 12 inches inless you charge into the massed horde) or another mech list. Besides the wrap around the transports doors and cause utter death. But i mean how do they fair against a mech gunline. But then again against other armies they do have a massive advantage imo the two best bike armies are Nobz and bikes and Eldar those two have some real kick.

But the biggest con is the massive money your about to lose making the army.

It depends a lot on what you're up against, I guess. My DE chomp bike armies pretty handily, however, I've been tempted to put together a bike army to see what I can do with one.

FoeHammer wrote:I just dont see how a bike army deals with a horde army

Don't drive them up the middle. Pick a side and isolate it.

[Tactics 101]

Don't drive them up the middle. Pick a side and isolate it.

[Tactics 101]

LOL thats how your gonna deal with say a orc mech list, as bikes with all that mobility your gonna stay on a corner? I just dont see how you will win even if you stay in the corner lol we are still talking 9+ transports and atleast 90-100 orcs probably more and since the main anti-tank of a bike force is a melta you get one shot with it before you get charged. Once those orcs or nids close in your gone you and your 30 bikes sorry inless you have a crazy assault bike force or eldar bike force you arent gonna go places with a bike force. The only hope i can see for a bike force vs a orc mech force would be to start on a far corner and do a fighting retreat to the other side, but as for Objective games were you cant stay in the corner the whole game and dislodging a group of 20 or so orcs off a obj is gonna be tough for a bike force. That and anything in cover is gonna give the bikes hell. So inless you have more then stay in the corner its just not a good set up imo.

I may be bad at english but the above quote says "Pick a side and isolate it".. No where in that statement does it say "Sit back in a corner and wait"

Also horde orks != mech orks which the quote was about

One of the oldest 40k strategies is to pick a flank and attack it with everything.. it works very well, and even more so against huge horde armies.. Vs ork mechs, just shoot the paper transports and decide based on what dies

Pick a side means staying on a side (corner) how else would you see it i assumed he was talking about shooting the horde as it advances inless he deploys across the table (which i would think would be better for the horde), and as to what a horde is i consider any army with 100+ models a horde wouldn't you say so a ork mech force isnt that much smaller then a foot slogging force. And they have alot of paper transports and with a large range to charge you with. Once those PK's start hitting your bikes you are gonna be in trouble they out number you 3:1 or even 4:1. There are few marine bike armies that i would really ever consider and the only one that may be worth its money is DA (ravenwing) with the scout rules makes them nice and as i said before nobz on bikes and the most competitive of the 3 eldar bikes (Maybe even a marine army with alot of scout bikes might be able to get up around 50 bikes that is another option). But im sorry i just dont see how a bike army will be able to defeat a Mech army of any kind to be honest the small number of models is the big thing here and with all the 5' blasts that will decimate your squads. I just dont see how your'll even be able to defeat a mobile eldar force or a IG gun line what kill a squad then get rapid fired by the other 100 guys. Does anyone here play a highly competitive bike force (not saying they cant be just want to know how they deal with things)? And to ram into a flank thats what a orc mech army would want you may have some success but on the next turn that whole orc army is gonna come down on ya. True some lists your'll crush ive seen bike armies do it and they decimate un-experienced players but other lists its almost hopeless from what ive seen idk i would rather have a balanced list have many minor weaknesses and no major weaknesses.

Has a bike army ever won a GT? How many times has a bike army placed in a GT? Im just asking not trying to offend all the bike armies out there.

If you mean nob bikers and warlock jetbike armies then yes..

I run a bike list (Normal marines) great fun and loads of options. For antit ank your laughing as i think my 1750 list has 15+ meltas.

For horde lists you pick your fights. Just keep shooting from 18+ range and turbo boost if needs be away to safety. when they are low on numbers move in witha squad to rapid fire and assault.

Flamers in bike squads work wonders too if you want to swap out some melta guns. two flamers, then charging in helps thin enemies.

A command squad with lightning claws and SS work nicely for a HTH unit and even nicer if you outflank them with Kahn who is a nice insurance for furious charge, hit and run, and also for instant death power weapon which killed Typhus for me last game. very fun achieving that.

The cost was easy on the wallet as I ordered the ravenwing box sets, this also opens up taking dual heavy bolter or typhoon speeders for roles, although multimelta attack bikes are god sends and I always travel with 2 groups of 3.

Its a learning experience when to fight and when to assault, but an all bike army is a fun lis to learn.

If you're playing just for fun, Deffkopters are cheap on Ebay because of AOBR. Buy them and ditch the propeller (or magnetize it) and use them as bikes. They're about the same size.

Bike armies aren't ultra competitive. They're fun to use and can be a challenge to a unprepared list, but they have a lot of weaknesses that are difficult to overcome, mostly low model count/high points cost and short shooting ranges, partnered with a high financial investment. If winning more often than not is a priority, I would not advocate the list, but if it's a second/fun type army, it's up to you. Can be fun and looks mighty impressive on the field, I must say.

All bike army just took 1st overall at the Broadside Bash Indy GT over the weekend. It probably wouldn't have won overall at a less soft score oriented event but he took home the title and is going to Vegas which is what matters

All Bikes won Best general at the Big Waagh last summer. The trick to all bike armies is that Vehicle heavy armies have almost no answer to them. Turbo-boost into their face, take your 3+ cover save from the meltaguns and then destroy tanks in mass. It is a very finesse army and takes a while to master. You will lose a lot more than you win for about a year until you've got it down pat.

FoeHammer wrote:

-Snip-
LOL thats how your gonna deal with say a orc mech list...
-Snip-

Well, despite your condescension - I will answer you like an adult instead of lashing back out.

Here is the response I would have given you if you were civil :

"My mistake. I should have clarified my post saying it's not a perfect fix, but merely your best bet. That's how I would answer the question of how a bike based army would handle a horde. Obviously, an army with a low model count will clearly have issues with massive numbers - but in my opinion the best strategy would be to isolate a flank and beat it. Possibly buying time while the rest of the horde shuffles to your position.

You should be able to achieve localized superiority."

Now, here is my reply considering you're a rude person :

"How many GT's have you won, buddy?

And a mechanized Ork list isn't a horde list. You can actually make 10-man Ork units fall back. Not having fearless or real armor saves is a huge drawback to transported 10-man units. The distinction between 30 wounds with fearless and no armor and 10 wounds, without fearless and no armor means a world of difference within the design paradigm of the Ork Codex."

Maybe your best idea would be to hide in a corner and fire at a horde, but you can isolate a section of an army and essentially put the battle on the terms of "My whole army, versus a fraction of yours", for at least a few turns.

Biker armies are generally not worth it.
Such an army should keep the enemy at arms length.
But this is really tough since Bikers have too less dakka.

Defiler wrote:

Don't drive them up the middle. Pick a side and isolate it.

[Tactics 101]

How was that not rude i asked a simple question and you attacked me and now your the one throwing terms at people i have yet to say anything childish i just thought it was funny as one such as great as yourself had only that as a reply. Through out your whole last post you kept saying how rude i was. I simply laughed at you cause your answer was ignorant and assume tactics can fix everything itll help you, but a great build that doesn't rely on speed and short range with a low model count also helps alot.

Defiler Wrote:

"How many GT's have you won, buddy?

Did i say i ever won one idk maybe i should go back and re-read, why would you even say that? I was asking if a bike army has as this thread is about bikes not, Foehammer. The main reason i was asking was to see how a good bike player can handle such a environment.

And a mechanized Ork list isn't a horde list. You can actually make 10-man Ork units fall back. Not having fearless or real armor saves is a huge drawback to transported 10-man units. The distinction between 30 wounds with fearless and no armor and 10 wounds, without fearless and no armor means a world of difference within the design paradigm of the Ork Codex."

Im not sure if you have read/understood the ork codex but a truckk can transport up to 12 models so why a ork player would take ten idk and 12 models makes them fearless now be it maybe for only one turn but thats all a mech ork army needs to get into cc with you. And also why a player in a ork mech list wouldnt take a nob is beyond me (most ork mech lists also take boss poles on nobz) so more then likely that squad of 11 orks and one nob is gonna make it to you. Ill have to agree 29 orks and a nob is alot different from 11 orcs and a nob but that nob still has a PK and is still gonna deal damage in cc it'll just get there alot faster then the 30 model unit. I also dont see how a army with 100+ models like mech orks isnt a horde list so a horde list must be a footslogging force i disagree.

And i know how rude i am no need to spam it in your next post defiler. But all i was doing was asking questions. In one of my posts i even said i wasnt trying to offend anyone but i assume as you didnt read the ork book you also didnt read the whole thread.

FoeHammer wrote:. But im sorry i just dont see how a bike army will be able to defeat a Mech army of any kind to be honest the small number of models is the big thing here and with all the 5' blasts that will decimate your squads.

If you have room you can lay them out in a way that minimizes the damage a 5" template will do:

B--AB--B

B-------B

B-------B

When I run my bikes I take a Captain on a bike so they count as troops, and run 7-model squads with them. In the diagram above your opponent will be tempted to drop the template on the attack bike in the front, which will scatter off fairly often. Even if it lands right on his head, he's two inches wide, with a two inch gap to the next model, so the 2.5" radius of the template won't reach the next models over. He can't drop in the center of the group because there is no model there (damn rules, can't attack a spot on the ground!) and even if it scatters into the center it might not hit anything. So, chances are on a given shot you're going to take 0-3 hits at the most, and you have T5 instead of T4 to resist them with, and if you turbo boosted you get the cover save to boot. Put the MM on the attack bike and meltas on the two guys flanking him and get in the face of the thing that's dropping the big templates.

lol i love the diagram. But i mean how many models do you run in your bike army (do you mind posting a list in a post) im just saying even if you spread out all your guys your allowing more to shoot at it and more to be able to assault it. Just the big thing for me is the model count and the bikes fragility when shot at (cause they have no transports) and in terrain (mainly dieing on a roll of 1 in Difficult terrain). Im not saying your'll never win a game my big thing is if you have a bike army thats alot of egg's in one basket and a expensive basket at that. And to be honest i just wanted to know how they dealt with horde and mech lists.

FoeHammer wrote:lol i love the diagram. But i mean how many models do you run in your bike army (do you mind posting a list in a post) im just saying even if you spread out all your guys your allowing more to shoot at it and more to be able to assault it. Just the big thing for me is the model count and the bikes fragility when shot at (cause they have no transports) and in terrain (mainly dieing on a roll of 1 in Difficult terrain). Im not saying your'll never win a game my big thing is if you have a bike army thats alot of egg's in one basket and a expensive basket at that. And to be honest i just wanted to know how they dealt with horde and mech lists.

I'm still pretty noobish so take my comments with a grain of salt, and I'm still feeling out my lists. I sort of jumped in headlong and have enough stuff to make a lot of different lists, I don't think I've run the same list twice. I also don't believe a pure bike list is the way to go, I think you need some other things to balance it out.

You have to judge the value of spreading them out, if there's no pie plates coming your way it's not necessary. They're less fragile than they look because of the toughness 5, I haven't done the math but I think a 3 attack bike squad is actually more resilient against anti-vehicle weapons than a 3 landspeeder squad. The ability to move and shoot the bolters 24" and the heavy weapons is also very valuable, as is the twin-linking of the bolters. The turbo boost to gain a save is useful, and it can get you to an otherwise out of reach objective at the end of the game.

It looks like my army builder files got broken by an update though, I just went to dig one out and they're unreadable. The general gist of the last 1500 list I used was:

Captain on bike with power weapon

Bike squad 1
-Attack Bike with MM
-Sergeant (may have had power weapon)
-5 more bikes, one with flamer, one with melta

Bike squad 2
-Attack Bike with MM
-Sergeant (may have had power weapon)
-5 more bikes, one with flamer, one with melta

Two Dreads with drop pods and heavy flamer

Dakka Pred

Assault squad with 10 men, a flamer and a power weapon(might have been fist)

Tac squad with flamer and plasma cannon

Edit: If only Vulkan could ride a bike...

@ItsTheSneak:
Vulkan can ride a Land Raider...which is what I've seen some people go for at higher points when they can afford the bike background and the TH/SS+LR combatty box.

Captain: Power weapon = poo.
Power weapons on Biker Vets = poo.

______________

@OT:
I have a SM vanilla Biker army.
It's fun, fast, furious. Win big/Lose big. It's an army that keeps you on your toes as it's highly unforgiving...and some people like that that .

About the cost, it wasn't so bad for me due to 'count as'. I saved some money by mounting my dudes up on horseback...WFB Chaos Knights are awesome.

Anyway, a biker army is all about force concentration, creating an uneven distribution of points on the table. You get that to work and you are gold, if it falls apart it falls apart, nothing you can do about it. /shrug.

Ive played against white scars quite a few times over the years. They make for a very (obviously) fast army with flexibility. But can be defeated very quickly if they get bogged down and split up. Though they can be absolutely devastating if you underestimate them.

Sanctjud wrote:@ItsTheSneak:
Vulkan can ride a Land Raider...which is what I've seen some people go for at higher points when they can afford the bike background and the TH/SS+LR combatty box.

Captain: Power weapon = poo.
Power weapons on Biker Vets = poo.

Haha what would you recommend instead? Relic blade? Power Fists for the vets?

If you do spend point on the power weapon, you'd rather spend the same amount of points and get the Lightning claw...re-rolls win games .
I like the relic blade, it's pricey, but decent.

As for Vets, if you do go power, go with fist, if not, then get a combi-weapon as bikers are shootng platforms first and fore-most.

WITH RESPECT TO SM VANILLA BIKERS.
________________________

I do have experience wielding a jetbike council/mass jetbike/prism army.
So much Jump-shoot-Jump it reminds Tau who thought up that kind of move first !!!!!!!

Instead of my whole army staying together, the jetbike council is thrown at the enemy, while the Guadian jetbikes either (1) close in vs. shooty armies or (2) keep at arms length vs. combatty armies.

My lists generally focuses on anti-troop rather than a balanced sort of approach.
How rewarding it is, I won't know, I scratch built my jetbike army, so nothing 100% official with them.

Sanctjud wrote:If you do spend point on the power weapon, you'd rather spend the same amount of points and get the Lightning claw...re-rolls win games .
I like the relic blade, it's pricey, but decent.

As for Vets, if you do go power, go with fist, if not, then get a combi-weapon as bikers are shootng platforms first and fore-most.

I think the main reason I'd want fists on the vets is to have a hedge against the bikes getting forced into CC by something nasty, not to intentionally charge with them... LC on the commander is interesting, the main reason I have a power/relic on him is a friend of mine gave me a very old and very nice metal bike captain model and he's got a sword.

One thing I was thinking of is running the bikes in the absolute minimum squad size that still counts as troops (5 models, 6 wounds per squad if you take an attack bike) and loading up on special weapons. You could get a ton of highly mobile special weapons on the board that way, though the individual squads would not be very resilient...

Well..the issue with Power Weapon Biker Troop Vets is that you pay the full price for a power weapon, but you do not get 50% of the benefits. What I am refering to is the bonus attack granted by 2 hand weapons; the troop biker Vet does not get this bonus because he does not have 2 CCWs. Sucks right?
So it's fist or combi-weapon...the power weapon is a crazy poor choice outside of 'looks' sadly.

What you propose ItsTheSneak is the MSU mindset (multiple small units).
It's decent at low points games, but the higher you go, the more 'fragile' those squads are and the easier the kill points to be had. I think a hybrid of squad sizes are in store when the list expands out.

Now... if we were talking about a FA slot in non-all bikers it might be different as you'd most likely be hiding behind a rhino wall, but bikers in the majority are exposed and so need the bodies to shelter the important dudes in the squad.