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OK, so I've finally left the realm of TheoryHammer and have started to climb Mt. Learning Curve with my Sisters of Battle Immolator Spam.

Last night I played an 1850 point game against Space Wolves and (unfortunately) lost.

My list was:
HQ: Palatine with Book & 5 Celestians with 2 Meltas in a Smoked Immolator
ELITE: 2 units of 5 Celestians with 2 Meltas in Smoked Immolators
TROOP: 2 units of 10 Sisters with Heavy Flamer/Flamer & VSS with Book in Smoked, Extra Armor Rhinos
TROOP: 5 =I= Storm Troopers with 2 Meltas
FAST: 3 units of 5 Dominions with 2 Flamers & 2 Meltas in Smoked Immolators
HEAVY: A Smoked Immolator (transport for the =I= Boys)
HEAVY: 2 Smoked Exorcists


His list was:
Bjorn, the Fell-Handed
2 Rune Priests, one with Lightning & Hurricane, the other with Lightning and Wolf of the Wolf Wolf... Wolf Wolf!
A Long Fang squad with 5 Missile Launchers and Sergeant
A big unit of Terminators with Power Weapons and one Chainfist (one of the Rune Priests went here)
A unit of Grey Hunters with 2 Melta in a Drop Pod (with the other Rune Priest)
two Rhinos with 10 Grey Hunters, one with 2 Melta, the other with 2 Plasma
A Drop Pod with Dreadnought filling.


The game was table quarters and 3 objectives, one in the middle and two skirting his deployment quarter. He won the roll and chose to go second.

I drove forward, popped smoke and was on him Turn 2 when my cold dice decided that aside from taking out 5 of the 6 Long Fangs that any further shots which managed to hit still wouldn't do much. My Exorcists had to deal with a face full of Drop Dread, and my 4th Edition instinct to stick them in a forest for cover (without 50% of the hull being obscured) didn't do me any favors.

He popped the two Celestian Immolators and assaulted with Bjorn on one side of the battlefield, and the Termies on the other. Faith-granted Invulnerable saved tarpitted them for two turns while my advancing Dominions and Sisters failed to crack open the Rhinos of the Grey Hunters, but did kill off all but one of the Drop Podding Hunters.

The rest of the game saw most of the rest of my vehicles taken out, along with Bjorn killing 3 Sisters in close combat and running them down, and the other 10 Sisters trying Hand of the Emperor against a Rhino and getting zero penetrations or significant glancing results.

The game ended with that Rhino of Grey Hunters sitting on one objective, Bjorn sitting on another where a unit of Sisters used to be, and the third blasted clean of Space Wolf presence, but with Pinned =I= Storm Troopers too far away to claim.


Lessons Learned:

Running the Immolators in "Pincers" of a Celestian, Dominion, and an HQ or other Dominion Immolator with a Rhino behind worked fairly well. Due to space issues I couldn't fit the =I=ST Immolator in with the crowd and it ended being too far out of range to play a role until later. I think either Plasma to add shooting range, or keeping them in Reserve might be a better idea. Or perhaps making 3 Immolator "Pincers"; two of Celestian-Dominion-Rhino, and one of Palatine-Celestian-=I=ST's

Originally this was a 2000 point list, but when my opponent wanted to play 1850 I just dropped one unit of Celestians in their Immolator. Looking back, I think I'd have been better served by dropping a squad of Dominions and keeping the Celestians for their Faith and marginally increased survivability in assaults. Plus it would free up 20 points for some Bolter-Meltas for the Rhino Sisters or VSS-es for the Dominions, or Melta-bombs to spread around.


Stupid Things I Did, and Promise Not To Do Again:

- "Area Terrain" does NOT exist in 5th edition, doubly so for Vehicles. TLOS, TLOS, TLOS.
- Keep the Exorcists moving, with only one gun to fire they don't need to be static.
- Go back to Hvy Flamer/Melta for the Rhino Sisters, 'cuz if you need it, but ain't got it...
- Forgetting there was a unit of Dominions inside my last mobile Immolator.
- Forgetting to fire those Dominions into the back of Bjorn who was sitting on an Objective.

I signed up for an 1850 tournament run by the store in the 2nd week of March: TSHFT.

I plan on getting in some more games to break the rust off my Faith-Fu. Any insight would be appreciated.

Interesting variation on rhino/razorback spam - apparently playing similarly in terms of vehicle (un)survivablity . Your list seems rather light on anti-tank/anti-MC?

Area terrain certainly exists, it just doesn't fulfill the same function as 4th ed.

From what I know of Immolator Spam, all your Battle Sister squads should have dual Meltaguns. The list does not rely on Divine Guidance or Faith in general. I believe the list also does not contain any Exorcists.

kadun wrote:From what I know of Immolator Spam, all your Battle Sister squads should have dual Meltaguns. The list does not rely on Divine Guidance or Faith in general. I believe the list also does not contain any Exorcists.

There's more than one way to run a list. Exorcists can be viable in immolator spam because they provide long range firepower that's more durable than the immolators themselves, so it sets up a conundrum in the mind of the opponent: do I shoot the target that can do more damage but is harder to hurt, or do I just take it on the chin and shoot the transports?

Clang wrote:Interesting variation on rhino/razorback spam - apparently playing similarly in terms of vehicle (un)survivablity . Your list seems rather light on anti-tank/anti-MC?

How is 12 meltaguns and 2 exorcists light on anti-tank/anti-MC?

Well, it's fine at really close range, but not so great at a distance...

Try to make points to upgrade that HQ to a Canoness. When ever I've looked up advice for SoB it has always been recomended.

n0t_u wrote:Try to make points to upgrade that HQ to a Canoness. When ever I've looked up advice for SoB it has always been recomended.

One of the strengths of the immolator spam list is that you don't need faith points to be effective, so you don't really need to pay the points to upgrade to a canoness.

I'd drop one of the Dominions for another Exorcist due to the necessity for more medium-high Str saturation fire at range. I'd also consider dropping the other Dominions and the IST for an allied Imperial Guard platoon with autocannon heavy weapon teams for even more long range firepower.

This changes the nature of your army from a 12" firefighter that has to survive several shooting phases to get into its 'fighty' range into a transport rush army with a 48" threat sphere. And, since all the IG units are going to be scoring, you can throw every WH unit forward regardless of mission type.

sourclams wrote:I'd drop one of the Dominions for another Exorcist due to the necessity for more medium-high Str saturation fire at range. I'd also consider dropping the other Dominions and the IST for an allied Imperial Guard platoon with autocannon heavy weapon teams for even more long range firepower.

This changes the nature of your army from a 12" firefighter that has to survive several shooting phases to get into its 'fighty' range into a transport rush army with a 48" threat sphere. And, since all the IG units are going to be scoring, you can throw every WH unit forward regardless of mission type.

This is something I've considered since I have the models for it.

The Autocannon would give a good transport-busting ability at range, meaning juicer targets for the Immolators to catch in a drive-by BBQ-ing.

So that revised list would look something like...

HQ: Palatine with Book & 5 Celestians with 2 Meltas in a Smoked Immolator
ELITE: 2 units of 5 Celestians with 2 Meltas in Smoked Immolators
TROOP: 2 units of 10 Sisters with Heavy Flamer/Melta & VSS with Book in Smoked, Extra Armor Rhinos
TROOP: Inducted IG Platoon: Command Section with Autocannon, 2 Squads with Autocannons, and 3 Autocannon Fire Teams
FAST: 5 Dominions with 2 Flamers & 2 Meltas in a Smoked Immolator
HEAVY: 3 Exorcists

Plus a Commissar for an IG Squad for blobbing up and a Chimera for the Command Section if there's points. That would give me the static IG firebase, two pincers of Celestian, Dominion or HQ Immolators with a Rhino of Sisters riding behind, and 3 Exorcists providing covering fire, or concentrate fire and make one Monstrous Creature go away with 1 turn of shooting.

Would it be benefical to use the available guardsmen chimeras (with twin H-flamers of course) instead of rhinos to transport your two units of troop sisters?

Mellon wrote:Would it be benefical to use the available guardsmen chimeras (with twin H-flamers of course) instead of rhinos to transport your two units of troop sisters?

Not really. The Chimeras would be Dedicated Transports and I'd have to have the Sisters on foot and mount up in the first turn. Part of the reason I've gone all-Mech is that inthe local meta-game the IG players have discovered their new favorite Marine Killer: The Colossus Mortar. S6, AP3, and ignores cover saves, making any unmounted 3+ save units targets of opportunity.

What I have been thinking of for the Inducted IG is a Platoon Command with Autocannon in a Chimera to hang back with 2 Squads of infantry with Autoncannon (and blob them up), and add two Heavy Weapon Squads of Autocanon on top of that. Potentially 18 S7 shots against my opponent's transports before driving up 12" to open up the TL Heavy Flamers from the Immolators. I'd keepthe MultiLaser and Heavy Bolter on the Chimera to add to the volume of fire.

If memory serves. Then I believe that moving from one vehicle to the next in turn one would be unnecessary. Because in 5th ed the fact that it's a dedicated transport no longer makes a difference.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. =] I'm always happy to learn the error of my ways lol

Oshova

Ouch, then I do understand why you want to keep things in transports at all times.

It is a nasty little firebase you would have there. Not horribly expensive either. It seems very solid to me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Oshova wrote:If memory serves. Then I believe that moving from one vehicle to the next in turn one would be unnecessary. Because in 5th ed the fact that it's a dedicated transport no longer makes a difference.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. =] I'm always happy to learn the error of my ways lol

Oshova

Only restriction about dedicated transports are that they need to start the battle empty or carrying the squad they were bought with. Getting rhinos just so the sisters could start inside them and then disembark and reembark on the chimera in the first movement phase seems like a bit of a waste of points... Even though I cannot find anything in the rules that says you cannot do this. I even think the chimera would be allowed it's usual move in the same phase.

Thanks Mellon. =]

In that case it's a shame. But ohwell. =]

Oshova

I toyed with the idea of a unit of Sisters jumping in an Inquisitor's Land Raider on the fist turn, but it turned out to be too fiddly to get off in practice, especially with the newfound love of Griffon Mortars going around.

What do you think of dropping one of the Heavy Weapon Squads in order to upgrade the rest of the IG to Missile Launchers?

In theory it should add more flexibility and higher Strength for tank killing, but with fewer BS 3 shots. A good trade off?

Clang wrote:Well, it's fine at really close range, but not so great at a distance...

The threat range of a meltagun inside a rhino is 18", or 24" if the passengers get out.

Remember, even outside of melta range it's still a Str8 AP1 shot fired by a BS4 model. 12 of those is going to give anything (except a LR or monolith) a bad day.

And not much can give a monolith a bad day, without utterly spamming it with heavy fire . . . which you might as well use on the necrons to cause everything to phase out. lol

But yeah meltas in Rhino are deffinetly a medium range threat in my opinion, rush forward 12, jump out 2, then fire 12 . . . that's a good 26" you're getting there. =]

Oshova