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So this may seem like common sense but I thought I'd post this because it only recently occurred to me. What do you think dakka?

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Have I got a take all comers list?

1. Can I take Objectives?

Blood for the Blood God is shiny and all, but we need a place to build the Skull Throne.

Do you have enough troops to win the ground war? IMO you will need 3 units minimum and they will need to have some durability as well as mobility, hence the popularity of transports.

2. Do I have Anti-Mech?*

These cowards keep hiding in their metal boxes!

Ideally every unit you have should have the potential to take down vehicles, either in shooting or combat. Shooting is preferable.

3. Do I have Anti-Horde?

Every time I kill one another takes its place.

Most units are made to kill infantry So this is usually easy as long as you haven't sold you soul to the Melta God. Dakka Preds Flamers etc.

4. Do I have Anti-MC?

If it bleeds we can kill it

High strength shots/attacks, lots of them usually.

5. Do I have Anti-INV?

The Melta! It does nothing!

Torrent of fire/attacks are needed to put those Farseers and storm shield welding 'Roid Monkeys in their place.

6. Do I have Psyker Defense?

Do you hear the voices too?

Alot of armies don't have obvious psyker defense like the hood, But even being mounted up is a form of psyker defence As psykers usually target infantry, except for bloody njal.

7. Do I have Redundancy?

Ok so the death star blew up, what's Plan B?

Imagine your first choice unit failing completely. Are you screwed? Perhaps all your eggs are in one basket.


*Optional Point

Critical -{>:" Data Error - There are no choices in the Imperium of Man, report to you commissar for the heresy of independent thought

2.1 Do I have Anti-Transports?

What d'you mean theres no Autocannon in the box set!

Preferably long range (48), preferably strength 7, preferably autocannon. Other armies have equivalents.



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Anyways those are my thoughts on what is need to make an all comers list. Thanks to the many people who have posted tactics on the internet for making me better at this game, Hopefully this helps somebody.

Agreed, but I'm not certain you need Psyker defense like the hood - that's 65 points for an allied Inq Lord with Hood, and I'd say it's only worth it at 1850+.

Anti-mech could be split up into "anti-transport" and "anti-tank".

You need a large number of medium strength shots, like autocannons to take out transports before they get to you with their cargo. Then you also need a small-ish number of things like meltaguns or S10 ordnance to be able to put the hurt on AV13/14 reliably.

Well said and funny.
I would second makr's point about anti-mech. You have to have good long range firepower for transports and usually good Melta weapons for killing tanks/walkers.

What about CC units? I think a bullet point for things like CC Terminators coming in from your table edge turn 2 and then assaulting you could be a serious threat when unprepared :O

I think this is a great list though, and very well enumerated

I'd simplify it, though I like the fluff comments:

1. Does the army maximize flexibility?
2. Does the army maximize redundancy?
3. Does the army maximize synergy?

Good checklist, Shaman. I'd third makr's point about splitting the two types of anti-vehicle firre into separate lines.

Nurglitch, those are good meta-points, and not bad to add to what he's got here (an overall or compound section). But this list is really a detail guide, with each purpose to be checked off. For newbs or those of us who don't get to game much outside our immediate gaming groups (and thus may forget to include units to address things that our friends don't field much), it would be useful.

More importantly, it's funny and well-written.

Very nice checklist.

Are you familiar with the most popular "super-lists" and "super-units" in the meta? And do you have a strategy to handle them?

Str10 weaponry covers a good few of those check-lists.

Blast weaponry and/or spammable template weapons covers nearly all of the others.

That is all

Mellon wrote:Very nice checklist.

Are you familiar with the most popular "super-lists" and "super-units" in the meta? And do you have a strategy to handle them?

I think thats an important piece to include but I'd just list it under "Meta-game".

BTW do people think I should make this an article???

Thanks for all the comments ..

@ makr

The anti transport, anti av14 distinction only makes sense with armies who have a wide variety of options like marines and guard. Orks only have the anti transport option with lootas and rokkits. If you add the long range part then according to the checklist every ork army needs lootas.. So I'd prefer to leave it general. *Reads more replies* Seems everyone agree with you.. I guess I chuck it on as a optional point.

@ minigun thanks.

@ Royal1.. CC units like terminators are covered in anti INV. What you would do about would feed them a crappy unit then torrent of fire the expensive termies. In an ideal world anyway but thats more tactics.

@ Nurglitch.

Honestly Even now I would struggle to apply that to my army. When I was a noob I'd have absolutely no idea. I think if things become too general they lose meaning. For example have I maximised flexiblity?.. ah flexiblity to do what? Maybe I missing it.

@Savnock Thanx for the compliment.

@Mellon See the idea is that if you have an all comers list then you should have the tools available to win despite what your opponent brings.

For example if Rock is extreme movement, scissors is assault and paper is shooting. Your list should be your hand before you decide to choose what to do. That way the game isnt over before it beings. PLUS Meta is different everywhere.

@ Razerous yes I am jealous of IG.

Yes, I think this would make a great article. Then when someone posts a "Is this a good 'ardboys list?"-thread they can be referred to this article if they really don't have a clue :-)

Indeed your list covers the tools that are able to handle "super-units". What I am talking about is more the mental preparations and knowing in more detail the strengths and weaknesses of the most popular/powerful units around. I would assume a all-comer-player has a basic knowledge of all the army lists. But some units and builds merit extra attention, because they rely on a particular trick or a single pony, so to speak. And it would be nice to have a prepared battleplan, including "who does what?" for them.

But to be honest, that might be a subject for a completely different article. Thus keeping this one focused on the list building.

Yes, this would be a nice article. However, I have yet to play a psycher-heavy player, is anti-psycher all that useful?

For example, I would need an Inquisitor w/ psychic hood (I play IG) to do this.

Psychic defense is alway useful. It can stop some of the most powerful lists in the game eg Tyranids, SW, CSM, and Eldar. It may not work all the time, but it will irritate your opponent which always helps fluster them.

Some psychic powers can have a very strong influence on a game. This does of course depend on the opposition and particular situations. Null Zone can really be a pain for storm shield terminators, among others. JotWW can hurt most tyranid armies very badly. An eldar jetbike council needs their psychic powers to be a true deathstar. Paroxysm can seriously blunt the impact of your dedicated assault unit. Lash of Submission is a psychic power worthy to build a whole category of armylists around, with Warp Time as nearly a must-have if you do not use the Lash.

The psychic powers that there is a point in using at a tournament is typically gamedefining. So if you can make those psychic powers less reliable for your opponent, you will have a distinct advantage.

Remember: killing the psyker is a viable form of psychic defense.

Psychic defense is like condoms or huge amounts of anti-tank. It's a lot better to have it and not need it, than the other way around.

LOL awesome analogy!

makr wrote:Agreed, but I'm not certain you need Psyker defense like the hood - that's 65 points for an allied Inq Lord with Hood, and I'd say it's only worth it at 1850+.

Anti-mech could be split up into "anti-transport" and "anti-tank".

You need a large number of medium strength shots, like autocannons to take out transports before they get to you with their cargo. Then you also need a small-ish number of things like meltaguns or S10 ordnance to be able to put the hurt on AV13/14 reliably.

but for me, my Psychic defense is killing 3 birds with one stone, of sorts. i get a table covering Hood, deep striking defense and 3 cheap special weapons. now that balloons my Inquisitors price tag up, but i'm going to get the plasmas anyway, so why not get them 15 points cheaper? and the average game i play i'll need either the Hood or the DS counter every game.

OT
love the check list! short, to the point and fun to read!

Great checklist! I think as a subset of anti-horde you should also mention anti-CC. As a Tau player I know it's important to keep CC units out of CC with units that can't handle them. That might be specific only to armies like Tau and IG, but it's also important even for SM to kill off units like lictors and mega-nobz

I would say for most of these you need to add the phrase "Do I have 2 or more units that can..."

As it stands it's easy to assume that your one Pred Annihilator or Vendetta will take care of anti-tank duties and then find yourself without a backup.

This checklist is very true, IMHO. I think it will help any player, esp my friends, minus the one Eldar player. Gotta say thanks Shamen (my favorite class )

BTW I already have it saved on my computer and am going to print it out in the morning!

Shaman:

Think about it. No, really: Think about it. Just telling you doesn't work, you have to work these out for yourself to really understand them. At least you'll understand better than if I try to tell you.

Thanks for all the positive feedback guys.

@ kid kyoto.. well I guess someone could see it like that. The thing is what number is enough? It depends on the unit and its capabilities.

Anyway I made it an article..

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Take_All_Comers_Checklist

Hopeful malfred (who I PMed) can move it to tactica catergory cause I made some mistake at the beginning.

Great checklist

Might want to break anti Mech into sub categories anti transport and anti heavy tank but other then that great job.