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The idea is to castle up and shoot. Grots and boyz hug the lootas and kannons to protect against outflanking and deepstriking assaults. Boyz are there to countercharge whatever hits the grots. Gaps in the units and terrain should provide lanes of fire.

HQ

Big Mek KFF 85
Warboss, PK, 'cybork, squig, 110

TROOPS
29 grots, 2 runtherders 107
29 shoota boyz + nob w/pk & bp (3 rokkits) 250
29 shoota boyz + nob w/pk & bp (3 rokkits) 250
29 shoota boyz + nob w/pk & bp (3 rokkits) 250



ELITE
15 lootas 225
15 lootas 225
15 lootas 225


HEAVY
x3 kannon (3 ammo runt, +5 crew) 84
x3 kannon (3 ammo runt, +6 crew) 87
x3 kannon (3 ammo runt, +6 crew) 87

total: 1750

How are you going to destroy AV14?? Kannons alone cannot do it.

How does this list deal with AV14?--it's orks so it can't! I do wonder if the concept can be salvaged.

He does have STR 9 PKs(on the charge)... but I don't think that will help too much.

I also see those Shoota Boyz running off table when they are reduced below fearless.

Drop the 2nd Big Mek; add Bosspoles and 3 Zzap guns.

How does this list deal with AV14?--it's orks so it can't! I do wonder if the concept can be salvaged.

Well, if it had Kans, couldnt it at least try ?

With so many grots do you need 2 KFFs? Maybe take a SAG?

If you could turn the Kannons into Zzap guns, then it might have some anti-tank.

Huh? Kannons are better anti-tank than Zzap guns I'm pretty sure... Maybe if they were AP1. Paying more points for a less reliable gun just so you have an outside chance of penning a land raider doesn't seem like better anti-tank to me,

How do you figure?

1) Cheaper
2) More reliable

And 3 isn't really an anti-tank point, but:

3) More versatile with the S4 Blast.

I mean, at 2D6 STR it's almost like you have to roll to hit a second time before you get to roll to wound... Roll to hit (50%, 75% with ammo-runt), then 50% chance of getting a strength that gives you a reasonable shot at actually doing something, and then you have to actually pen/glance.

What makes you say they are better anti-tank? I'd love for it to be so, but they just don't seem to have any real upsides. Extra shaken results doesn't seem like a huge deal to me.

Zzap guns certainly cost more, but I believe that they offer proportionately more value.

So, assuming:

S2 = 3%
S3 = 6%
S4 = 8%
S5 = 11%
S6 = 14%
S7 = 16%
S8 = 14%
S9 = 11%
S10 = 17%

S11 and S12 are, of course, S10 with the loss of a Gretchin. So it's really more like 17% likelihood of S10, for a grand total of 42% at S8+. That's certainly less than 100% for S8 of a Kannon but it also gets 2D6 Penetration.

In terms of Glancing and Penetration, a Kannon has the following chances (None/Glancing/Penetration) rounded up.

Kannon Hits
AV10 - 17%/17%/67%
AV11 - 33%/17%/50%
AV12 - 50%/17%/33%
AV13 - 67%/17%/17%
AV14 - 83%/17%/0%

In terms of Glancing and Penetration a Zzap Gun has the following chance (None/Glancing/Penetration) rounded up.

58% is S7-
42% is S8+

8% of Hits
AV10 vs S4 = 83%/17%/0%
AV11 vs S4 = 100%/0%/0%
AV12 vs S4 = 100%/0%/0%
AV13 vs S4 = 100%/0%/0%
AV14 vs S4 = 100%/0%/0%

11% of Hits
AV10 vs S5 = 67%/17%/17% 2
AV11 vs S5 = 83%/17%/0%
AV12 vs S5 = 100%/0%/0%
AV13 vs S5 = 100%/0%/0%
AV14 vs S5 = 100%/0%/0%

14% of Hits
AV10 vs S6 = 50%/17%/33% 5
AV11 vs S6 = 67%/17%/17%
AV12 vs S6 = 83%/17%/0%
AV13 vs S6 = 100%/0%/0%
AV14 vs S6 = 100%/0%/0%

16% of Hits
AV10 vs S7 = 33%/17%/50% 8
AV11 vs S7 = 50%/17%/33%
AV12 vs S7 = 67%/17%/17%
AV13 vs S7 = 83%/17%/0%
AV14 vs S7 = 100%/0%/0%

14% of Hits
AV10 vs S8 = 17%/17%/67% 9
AV11 vs S8 = 33%/17%/50%
AV12 vs S8 = 50%/17%/33%
AV13 vs S8 = 67%/17%/17%
AV14 vs S8 = 83%/17%/0%

11% of Hits
AV10 vs S9 = 0%/17%/83% 9
AV11 vs S9 = 17%/17%/67%
AV12 vs S9 = 33%/17%/50%
AV13 vs S9 = 50%/17%/33%
AV14 vs S9 = 67%/17%/17%

17% of Hits
AV10 vs S10 = 0%/0%/100% 17
AV11 vs S10 = 0%/17%/83%
AV12 vs S10 = 17%/17%/67%
AV13 vs S10 = 33%/17%/50%
AV14 vs S10 = 50%/17%/33%

So I had previously made a mistake an supposed that Zzap Guns had 2D6 Penetration. Oops. I've adjusted the tables, and added an aggregate, all penetrating on 1D6. C'est la vie.

Zzap Gun Hits
AV10 = 35%/15%/50%
AV11 = 51%/14%/35%
AV12 = 63%/12%/25%
AV13 = 75%/10%/15%
AV14 = 85%/7%/8%

And reiterating for clarity:

Kannon Hits
AV10 - 17%/17%/67%
AV11 - 33%/17%/50%
AV12 - 50%/17%/33%
AV13 - 67%/17%/17%
AV14 - 83%/17%/0%

So it seems that the Kannon is slightly more effective against AV12-, but the Zzap Gun is equivalent against AV13 and better against AV14. In all cases, both Penetrating and Glancing, the Zzap Gun will have the advantage of causing an automatic Crew Shaken result in addition to any other damage.

Sorry, but

That's certainly less than 100% for S8 of a Kannon but it also gets 2D6 Penetration.

It does not get 2D6 Pen :(

If it did, I'd take as many Zzap Guns as the codex allowed me to.

"Zzap Gun: Zzap guns are powerful but unpredictable energy cannons. Each time a Zzap gun battery is fired, roll 2D6 to determine its Strength. If the roll is above 10, one of the Gretchin crew is killed but the shot is still fired, counting as S10. When they score glancing or penetrating hits against vehicles, Zzap guns automatically cause a Crew Shaken result in addition to any other effects.

Zzap Gun R: 36", Str 2D6, AP2, Heavy 1"

No 2d6 pen :(

lol Nice date report... Zapguns are just for fun or if your a gambler. Orks don't have any reliable way to deal with AV14 cept' the ole' can openers which he has three.

I agree tho a Shokk Atack Gun would be fun. Your gunna get a +4 cover save from your gretchin and if you gunna corner up you dont need two KFF's

So I'll drop one of the Mek's and add a warboss with a powerklaw. He can footslog with 30 boyz but the likelyhood of him getting close enough to AV14 this way is small. In any case, with all this firepower, the only thing left of the opponent's army will be the one or two land raiders they have. Everything else should get popped fairly quickly.

I see Mawlocs will have fun with this list

ED209 wrote:I see Mawlocs will have fun with this list

Do you get a cover save vs. the attack? I know the INAT crowd has ruled in favor the strong option but no one in Europe has seem to heard of the INAT faq.

Mawlocs cannot jump into units unfortunately because of the wording.

olympia wrote:

ED209 wrote:I see Mawlocs will have fun with this list

Do you get a cover save vs. the attack? I know the INAT crowd has ruled in favor the strong option but no one in Europe has seem to heard of the INAT faq.

Really? I know the INAT FAQ says you do, but I mean...the Mawloc is eating the ground below you, you get no save if your cover is gone. It would be nice, as an IG player, to have it, but it just dosen't make sense, I would rather have rules that make sense (no cover save).

Anyways, this list can do a lot, except AV14. And 13, too, I think.

So I revised the list--added rokkits to the boyz for S8 spam, and added a warboss on foot for some slow but significant S10 threat. Still have 29 grots and three full units of boyz to meatshield the shooting units.

This is really a concept list. I ordinarily never take either shoota boyz or rokkits in the boyz. Hell, the only two ork lists I've ever played are kan wall and battlewagon spam.