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this is my 1500 point list for a upcoming 5 week League at my LFGS, about half more of our players are MEQ. Whatcha all think. Really starting to think of swapping out the Burnaboyz for Lootas...



1500 Pts - Orks Roster - Goff Clan Mech Assault

Heavy Support: Battlewagon (17#, 485 pts)
. . 1 Big Mek @ 125 pts ((C:Orks, pp. 34 & 97); Burna; Kustom Force Field; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!; 'Eavy Armour; Bosspole; Cybork Body; Mek's Tools)
. . 15 Burna Boyz @ 225 pts ((C:Orks, pp. 45 & 100); Burna; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!)
. . 1 Battlewagon @ 135 pts ((C:Orks, pp. 55 & 102); Big Shoota x2; Kannon; Deff Rolla; Grot Rigger)

Heavy Support: Battlewagon (21#, 404 pts)
. . 1 Warboss @ 120 pts ((C:Orks, pp. 32 & 97); Power Klaw; Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-weapon; Stikkbombs; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!; 'Eavy Armour; Attack Squig; Cybork Body)
. . 18 Boyz @ 154 pts ((C:Orks, pp. 40 & 100); Shoota; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!)
. . . . 1 Boyz Nob ((C:Orks, pp. 40 & 100); Power Klaw; Slugga; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!; Bosspole)
. . 1 Battlewagon @ 130 pts ((C:Orks, pp. 55 & 102); Big Shoota x2; Kannon; Deff Rolla)

Troops: Boyz (13#, 157 pts)
. . 11 Boyz @ 157 pts ((C:Orks, pp. 40 & 100); Choppa & Slugga; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!)
. . . . 1 Boyz Nob ((C:Orks, pp. 40 & 100); Power Klaw; Slugga; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!; Bosspole)
. . . . 1 Trukk ((C:Orks, pp. 41 & 100); Big Shoota x1; Boarding Plank; Reinforced Ram)

Troops: Boyz (13#, 157 pts)
. . 11 Boyz @ 157 pts ((C:Orks, pp. 40 & 100); Choppa & Slugga; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!)
. . . . 1 Boyz Nob ((C:Orks, pp. 40 & 100); Power Klaw; Slugga; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!; Bosspole)
. . . . 1 Trukk ((C:Orks, pp. 41 & 100); Big Shoota x1; Boarding Plank; Reinforced Ram)

Troops: Boyz (13#, 157 pts)
. . 11 Boyz @ 157 pts ((C:Orks, pp. 40 & 100); Choppa & Slugga; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!)
. . . . 1 Boyz Nob ((C:Orks, pp. 40 & 100); Power Klaw; Slugga; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!; Bosspole)
. . . . 1 Trukk ((C:Orks, pp. 41 & 100); Big Shoota x1; Boarding Plank; Reinforced Ram)

Fast Attack: Deffkoptas (1#, 70 pts)
. . 1 Deffkoptas @ 70 pts ((C:Orks, pp. 48 & 101); Buzzsaw x1; Choppa; Twin Linked Rokkit Launcha x1; Furious Charge; Hit & Run; Mob Rule; Scouts; Deffkopta)

Fast Attack: Deffkoptas (1#, 70 pts)
. . 1 Deffkoptas @ 70 pts ((C:Orks, pp. 48 & 101); Buzzsaw x1; Choppa; Twin Linked Rokkit Launcha x1; Furious Charge; Hit & Run; Mob Rule; Scouts; Deffkopta)

Validation Report:
c-1. File Version: 1.05c For Bug Reports/www.ab40k.org; b-1. Roster Options: Special Characters; a-1. Scenario: Normal Mission
Roster satisfies all enforced validation rules

Total Roster Cost: 1500

Created with Army Builder - Try it for free at http://www.wolflair.com

hmm, i gotta say that this is the absolute best troop chart lay out I've ever seen! that being said, you have a really good list going for you. what are you planning on doing with your second battle wagon group? cause honestly from the looks of it it sounds like your going to plant it on your opponents flanks after they're engaged. if this is not the case though, then i would suggest putting slugga boyz in it. also, what are you planning on taking to kill the tanks and MCs? cause you noted that you were debating on switching the burnas for lootas but i think you should switch something else for them and still keep the burnas to kill the termies. other than that i think you have a good list. btw, are you planning on using your coptas to do some distraction engagements?

zane2131 wrote:what are you planning on doing with your second battle wagon group?

I love shoota boyz for doing drive-bys. I see alot of Assaulty MEQ (Khorne Berserkers, Black Templar, etc) I've found these squads can really rip Orks units in half. I would much rather drive up and shoot them to pieces first.

also, what are you planning on taking to kill the tanks and MCs?

with Tanks I'll just drive up and use the boarding planks or get the 'coptas behind them if need be. With MC... well that's why I been debating on getting Lootas in there

are you planning on using your coptas to do some distraction engagements?

They either Scout turbo-boost up or outflank, they are primarily on transport killing duty. They get out there pop transports so my trukk boys and or burnas can eat the units inside either extra crispy or original flavor

Drop unnecessary wargears to more koptas.

I don't know how you'd get Lootas AND burnas into 1500 pts (maybe 5man loota squads) :S

Anyway, tokugawa, the only unnecessary wargear I can see is on the Big Mek (Armor, Cybork) but that does not go anywhere close to buying another Kopta.

If you are referring to the Koptas wargear, well, Buzzsaw+Rokkits are totally necessary, as you want first turn charge for twinlinked S8 shot+3x S7 auto-hits on rear armor.

number9dream wrote:I don't know how you'd get Lootas AND burnas into 1500 pts (maybe 5man loota squads) :S

It would be to swap the Burna Boyz for the Lootas. Would try to fit in 19 Ork Boyz in the Burna' Wagon and get some Lootas... have to make some cuts but it could be done

List looks pretty tight from here. Changing anything would probably upset the whole mechanized aspect of the army.

As it is, each battlewagon has a kannon, which is smart because it gives you either an anti-tank or anti-infantry shot. Seems very balanced.

Drop the kannon on the first wagon or else you cannot move the full 12" to get those burnas into range. Stay at 6" and fire those burnas are not doing their job, kind of counter productive.

Kannon applies to second wagon too, you cannot get into assault quick enough.

With the points saved get another deffkopter and you're sorted. If you can drop a trukk and merge the 2 trukk boyz units and give them a battlewagon. I've recently found a 4 battlewagon list does better than a 4 wagon list and 2 trukks due to setup and got me more models in the long run.

mercer wrote:Drop the kannon on the first wagon or else you cannot move the full 12" to get those burnas into range. Stay at 6" and fire those burnas are not doing their job, kind of counter productive.

Well dropping two Kannons is not gunna get me another Deffkopta.

They are just another Anti-transport weapon they are not meant to fire every round. Plus you can't move 12" and fire the burnas without disembarkin. But that's the least of my worries.

The biggest problem I am running into with my Orks is getting units out of transports without assaulting them. Kinda defeats the purpose if you have to Assault a transport then have the troops inside assault you the next turn. I reworked my list a bit by dropping the Cybork and 'Eavy Armour of the Big Mek and added a Rokkit Launcha to each Trukk.

I'm not saying it would. I'm just saying drop the kannons (for reasons mentioned) and get another deffkopter with the points saved.

My point is with the burnas you want to get them into range a.s.a.p in order to use them. If you only move 6" a turn to fire the kannons then that 225 points elite unit isn't doing anything, at least for several turns. Plus you wouldn't want to really disembark the burnas anyway, unless really needed. Drop mass flamer templates from the vehicle. If they get in the open they'll get shot to pieces with a 6+ armour save.

Use lootas to wreck transports at range and then gun them down with shoota boyz. Shootas have 18" range so move 6" in the wagon gives you a nice 24" and assault 2 as well . Also adding boarding planks on the wagons would allow you to assault vehicles without getting out and then getting shot next turn, a problem your also running into. If you take lootas then getting units out of transports is solved. You take boarding planks and you don't need to get out your wagon to assault a vehicle, problem solved again.

mercer wrote:I'm not saying it would. I'm just saying drop the kannons (for reasons mentioned) and get another deffkopter with the points saved.

General_Chaos wrote:Well dropping two Kannons is not gunna get me another Deffkopta.

Yeah the debate in my head is dropping burna boyz and taking Lootas. I see alot of Mechanized list but I also see alot of Terminators. While the lootas are great at taking out transport, the burnas are great at killing Terminators...

But here's my reworked list. Dropped the Deff Rollas, Kannons off the vehicles. Dropped the Burna, Cybork body, and 'Eavy Armour from the Big Mek. I added Rokkits to the trukks and two warbuggies with TL Rokkits. I could do another Deff Kopta with a buzzsaw but thought I try out the warbuggies. I'll have them run in front of the KFF that might add to some staying power and divert some fire power to them.

Another debate in my head is to switch the Warboss and Big Mek's places. So it would be Warboss with Burna Boyz and Big Mek with Shoota Boyz. If I turn one of the burna boyz into a Mek I could use him to fix the battlewagon if need be... ah maybe not, not really a big deal I got Grot Riggers on the Warboss's wagon

1500 Pts - Orks Roster - Goff Clan Mech Assault

Heavy Support: Battlewagon (21#, 384 pts)
. . 1 Warboss @ 120 pts ((C:Orks, pp. 32 & 97); Power Klaw; Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-weapon; Stikkbombs; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!; 'Eavy Armour; Attack Squig; Cybork Body)
. . 18 Boyz @ 154 pts ((C:Orks, pp. 40 & 100); Shoota; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!)
. . . . 1 Boyz Nob ((C:Orks, pp. 40 & 100); Power Klaw; Slugga; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!; Bosspole)
. . 1 Battlewagon @ 110 pts ((C:Orks, pp. 55 & 102); Big Shoota x2; Grot Rigger; Reinforced Ram)

Heavy Support: Battlewagon (17#, 420 pts)
. . 1 Big Mek @ 90 pts ((C:Orks, pp. 34 & 97); Choppa; Kustom Force Field; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!; Bosspole; Mek's Tools)
. . 15 Burna Boyz @ 225 pts ((C:Orks, pp. 45 & 100); Burna; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!)
. . 1 Battlewagon @ 105 pts ((C:Orks, pp. 55 & 102); Big Shoota x2; Reinforced Ram)

Troops: Boyz (13#, 162 pts)
. . 11 Boyz @ 162 pts ((C:Orks, pp. 40 & 100); Choppa & Slugga; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!)
. . . . 1 Boyz Nob ((C:Orks, pp. 40 & 100); Power Klaw; Slugga; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!; Bosspole)
. . . . 1 Trukk ((C:Orks, pp. 41 & 100); Rokkit Launcha; Boarding Plank; Reinforced Ram)

Troops: Boyz (13#, 162 pts)
. . 11 Boyz @ 162 pts ((C:Orks, pp. 40 & 100); Choppa & Slugga; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!)
. . . . 1 Boyz Nob ((C:Orks, pp. 40 & 100); Power Klaw; Slugga; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!; Bosspole)
. . . . 1 Trukk ((C:Orks, pp. 41 & 100); Rokkit Launcha; Boarding Plank; Reinforced Ram)

Troops: Boyz (13#, 162 pts)
. . 11 Boyz @ 162 pts ((C:Orks, pp. 40 & 100); Choppa & Slugga; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!)
. . . . 1 Boyz Nob ((C:Orks, pp. 40 & 100); Power Klaw; Slugga; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!; Bosspole)
. . . . 1 Trukk ((C:Orks, pp. 41 & 100); Rokkit Launcha; Boarding Plank; Reinforced Ram)

Fast Attack: Deffkoptas (1#, 70 pts)
. . 1 Deffkoptas @ 70 pts ((C:Orks, pp. 48 & 101); Buzzsaw x1; Choppa; Twin Linked Rokkit Launcha x1; Furious Charge; Hit & Run; Mob Rule; Scouts; Deffkopta)

Fast Attack: Deffkoptas (1#, 70 pts)
. . 1 Deffkoptas @ 70 pts ((C:Orks, pp. 48 & 101); Buzzsaw x1; Choppa; Twin Linked Rokkit Launcha x1; Furious Charge; Hit & Run; Mob Rule; Scouts; Deffkopta)

Fast Attack: Warbuggies (2#, 70 pts)
. . 1 Warbuggies @ 70 pts ((C:Orks, pp. 49 & 101))
. . . . 1 Warbuggy ((C:Orks, pp. 49 & 101); Twin Linked Rokkit Launcha)
. . . . 1 Warbuggy ((C:Orks, pp. 49 & 101); Twin Linked Rokkit Launcha)

Validation Report:
c-1. File Version: 1.05c For Bug Reports/www.ab40k.org; b-1. Roster Options: Special Characters; a-1. Scenario: Normal Mission
Roster satisfies all enforced validation rules

Total Roster Cost: 1500

Created with Army Builder - Try it for free at http://www.wolflair.com

Lootas will kill terminators just as good as burnas as the same principle applies - the high amound of wounds. If you have 15 lootas and fire 45 shots you need 5's to hit and 2's to wound. Burnas auto hit but need 4's to wound. Also burnas will probably get assaulted next turn, or the transport will be or get shot at even..

mercer wrote:Lootas will kill terminators just as good as burnas as the same principle applies - the high amound of wounds. If you have 15 lootas and fire 45 shots you need 5's to hit and 2's to wound. Burnas auto hit but need 4's to wound. Also burnas will probably get assaulted next turn, or the transport will be or get shot at even..

Dude you don't use the flamer template on the terminators, you assault with the power weapons...

Mass templates probably would be better. Lets say 5 terminators, so thats 75 rolls to wound from your 15 templates. Lets say half wound, thats 32.5 saves those terminators have to make. Got to roll some 1's there....

If you assault them you get 45 attacks though you might not get all into assault range and terminators get invulnerable saves. Also depends what unit of terminators your assaulting, against regular terminators you'll have more chance but against assault terminators forget it.

You assault those terminators and win you will get shot to pieces next turn. Orks want to stay in cover or inside a transport for as long as possible. Also the burnas don't have invulnerable saves and if the terminators have power fists then they'll more than likely force leadership test on the burnas as they will probably kill about 5-6, which means 10 or under, and minus that 5 or 6 from ld10 or ld9 and you'll no longer be fearless and using the orks numbers for leadership test.

mercer wrote:Mass templates probably would be better. Lets say 5 terminators, so thats 75 rolls to wound from your 15 templates. Lets say half wound, thats 32.5 saves those terminators have to make. Got to roll some 1's there....

SO if that's your logic why are Lootas better than Burna vs. terminators...

Mathhammer time

Lootas (45 shots) vs. regular terminators = 2.08 unsaved wounds

Burnas (45 Assault attacks) vs. regular terminators = 7.5 Unsaved wounds

Burnas (75 flamer hits) vs. regular terminators = 6.25 Unsaved wounds

But it would help substantially vs. Assault Terminators with Storm Shield

Burnas (45 Assault Attacks vs. Storm Shield Terminators = 3.75 unsaved wounds

I actually said lootas were just as good and I think they would fail a few more saves than that, probably 3. Which will force a morale test at least. Obivously with burnas will do more damage because more hits, just they don't have the strength. My point is they're just as good, give or take anyway, but lootas have other benefits.

I don't believe in maths hammer. Work out the odds for rolling 5 1's for saving terminators.....

and I don't believe in the Easter Bunny

but understand that Lootas are calculated at 45 hits their max throw some randomness to the amount of shots and those Terminators are not the optimum target for the loota boyz. They preform better at hitting MC and transports.

Don't get me wrong I do thank you for your opinion

No, I don't believe in the easter bunny either. However my daughter might do lol.

And yes of course, thats providing lootas get the correct roll for number of shots.

At the end of the day I'd say burnas are definately better for anti infantry, but only by a small amount than lootas. Sure burnas can assault, but its something I probably wouldn't be doing. Lootas have a more multi purpose role.

And no worries Glad to help. Be sure to check out my blog in my signature