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O.K. so hypothetically speaking, lets say you're playing an IG army with a pretty big platoon. Before the game begins, your opponent declares some of his units using the Outflank special rule and some that are Deep Striking. You get first turn and by the end of your turn one and two, you manage to get a good chunk of your IG army to extend along the entire side of, let's say the right side of the board edge. Now it's the bottom of turn two and your opponent starts rolling for his reserves and all his outflanking units become available and on top of that, he ended up rolling for them to come in on the right side of table that you are blocking with a long line of infantry models. Now if I'm not mistaken, unless he has skimmers, wouldn't your opponents models be unable to move on to the board edge because they cannot move through models or move within 1" of an enemy model???? And if this is the case, would they all count as being destroyed for not being able to make it into the game?????.........what do you guys think? is this a possible tactic to use against, let's say Tyranids with outflanking Genestealers or Tervigons.........or even Space Marine lists using Kor'sarro Khan ? on top of that , you can use an Officer of the Fleet to try and force the reroll for the side your opponent has to arrive on!....

The same situation has been discussed before, with all-Reserve armies against armies with a lot of Infiltrators, who can block their table edge.

The rules don't cover it. Nothing says the unit that is unable to move on is destroyed... It simply must move on, but can't.

The game stalls without a house rule to cover the situation. Various proposed rules that have been discussed have included counting the units that are unable to move on as destroyed, allowing them to move on from a different table edge, allowing them to move on in the assault phase directly into combat with the enemy, or allowing them to wait until the way is clear or the game ends (whichever comes first).


For completeness' sake, it's worth mentioning that some people have also suggested that the requirement to move on should over-ride the normal restriction on moving within 1" of enemy models (must move being more important than a rule that disallows moving there), thus giving a rules-based way out of the situation... but from previous discussions, opinions are fairly divided as to whether that's a valid way to interpret the rules.

This actually came up at some European tournament. And yes, the outflankig units cannot come in and are destroyed.

What I have heard of being done is the move onto the board is made and if they then still cannot be placed the unit is destroyed - so one would need to cover the board edge and 5" onto it in that situation.

As far as I'm concerned if someones gone to the time and effort to set such a 'trap' up and I'd let myself unbale to avoid it in some fashion - I'd have the units being killed.

Brutal.

ZacktheChaosChild wrote:This actually came up at some European tournament. And yes, the outflankig units cannot come in and are destroyed.

No, there are no rules stating that happens. Technically the game stops as there is no ruiles resolution to this situation.

This could also happen with infiltrators deploying on an open board due to the opponant holding all in resurves.

I have seen that people also play tanks as tank shocking coming in like this.

If this looked like is would come up alot I would setup a house rule. I think a tourny would call you destroyed.

If I had to make a house rule I would do something like this.
I think to keep it "fair" you could do something like call it a mishap and roll on the DS mishap table, 1-2 destroyed, 3-4 opponant places you on an edge of there choice 5-6 delayed back. If your not able to ever get them on the board they are distroyed.

insaniak and nosferatu1001 are correct. The game just breaks and the units are NOT destroyed.

ZacktheChaosChild wrote:This actually came up at some European tournament. And yes, (at that tournament it was ruled by the judges that the outflankig units cannot come in and are destroyed.

Fixed it.

I do believe that "the most important rule!" at top of page two would come into effect, rather than the game breaking down. So the game will still be played, you will just have to suffer through a social interaction.

Mellon wrote:I do believe that "the most important rule!" at top of page two would come into effect, rather than the game breaking down. So the game will still be played, you will just have to suffer through a social interaction.

Which is pretty much what I said right at the start...

Ah, it seems we have a language missunderstanding here. I interpreted "the game stalls" as "we need to stop playing, the game is over". :-)

ZacktheChaosChild wrote:This actually came up at some European tournament. And yes, the outflankig units cannot come in and are destroyed.

Wasn't Outflanking, his entire White Scars bike army was held in reserves. Deployed nothing and nothing could Deep Strike or Outflank (no Scout or Infiltrate). The opponent deployed Kroot long the White Scar player's board edge and stopped all of his units from coming on. Game broke


I'd say roll for it seeing as there is no rule for it. 1-3 the unit is destroyed, 4-6 the unit goes back into reserves.

I always found Grinman there pretty amusing.

If i were in this situation i woudl most likely go with either the suggested DS mishpa table or (in the case of tanks) make them do a tank shock move onto the table.

The Mishap solution works better as a blanket rule.

n0t_u wrote:

ZacktheChaosChild wrote:This actually came up at some European tournament. And yes, the outflankig units cannot come in and are destroyed.

Wasn't Outflanking, his entire White Scars bike army was held in reserves. Deployed nothing and nothing could Deep Strike or Outflank (no Scout or Infiltrate). The opponent deployed Kroot long the White Scar player's board edge and stopped all of his units from coming on. Game broke


I'd say roll for it seeing as there is no rule for it. 1-3 the unit is destroyed, 4-6 the unit goes back into reserves.

But that is a different situation.


Even if you ruled that they would stay in reserve until the next turn, they would end the game off the board, and thus be dead. So even that ruling doesn't say how they would react on a turn by turn basis.


Another "Raw" reading of the situation.
If the unit is Outflanking, and the board edge is blocked, they can't come on.
There is a rule that says if any special rule could prevent you from moving on, it is to be ignored. (Like Rage, IB, etc.) In this case, Outflank is keeping you from moving on, so you ignore it.
Thus the outflanking unit would walk on 'as normal'.

This isn't 100% waterproof, and it has no bearing if you block off the back edge, but it seems to make some sense otherwise.

Damn, that is hilarious! Drunkspleen, thanks for the photo!

I'm in favor of using the mishap rule. Outflank is a nifty tactic but like any tactic you can get burned if you rely on it as a crutch.

Mellon wrote:I do believe that "the most important rule!" at top of page two would come into effect, rather than the game breaking down. So the game will still be played, you will just have to suffer through a social interaction.

I don't know about you but I don't play this game for social interaction

well, these are tough calls......In a friendly game, I think something should be worked out that both players would agree to. But if something like this comes up in a tourney, where prizes and advancement in points are on the line, I could see how a player that went to the trouble of pulling off a crazy maneuver like this would want the units count as being destroyed. Games Workshop says it's supposed to be fun and all. But they also support tournament circuits which can be pretty competitive....So, if they don't have the Errata or FAQ to help solve game mechanic problems like this, I would just rely on the "Dice Gods" to decide.


This is what GW has to say about FAQ's:

The FAQs on the other hand are very much 'soft' material. They deal with more of a grey area, where often there is no right and wrong answer - in a way, they are our own 'Studio House Rules'. They are, of course, useful when you play a pick-up game against someone you don't know, or at tournaments (i.e. when you don't have a set of common 'house rules' with the other player). However, if you disagree with some answers and prefer to change them in your games and make your own house rules with your friends, that's fine. In fact we encourage you to shape the game around your needs and your taste. We firmly believe that wargaming is about two (or more!) people creating a gaming experience they are both going to enjoy. In other words, you might prefer to skip the FAQs altogether and instead always apply the good old 'roll a dice' rule whenever you meet a problematic situation.

- Games Development, November 2008

coredump wrote:

n0t_u wrote:

ZacktheChaosChild wrote:This actually came up at some European tournament. And yes, the outflankig units cannot come in and are destroyed.

Wasn't Outflanking, his entire White Scars bike army was held in reserves. Deployed nothing and nothing could Deep Strike or Outflank (no Scout or Infiltrate). The opponent deployed Kroot long the White Scar player's board edge and stopped all of his units from coming on. Game broke


I'd say roll for it seeing as there is no rule for it. 1-3 the unit is destroyed, 4-6 the unit goes back into reserves.

But that is a different situation.


Even if you ruled that they would stay in reserve until the next turn, they would end the game off the board, and thus be dead. So even that ruling doesn't say how they would react on a turn by turn basis.


Another "Raw" reading of the situation.
If the unit is Outflanking, and the board edge is blocked, they can't come on.
There is a rule that says if any special rule could prevent you from moving on, it is to be ignored. (Like Rage, IB, etc.) In this case, Outflank is keeping you from moving on, so you ignore it.
Thus the outflanking unit would walk on 'as normal'.

This isn't 100% waterproof, and it has no bearing if you block off the back edge, but it seems to make some sense otherwise.

I like this solution because it has better backing from the rules than most.

jbunny wrote:

Mellon wrote:I do believe that "the most important rule!" at top of page two would come into effect, rather than the game breaking down. So the game will still be played, you will just have to suffer through a social interaction.

I don't know about you but I don't play this game for social interaction

I did say "suffer" dind't I? ;-)

I also like the idea of using the 'Deep Strike Mishap Table' in this situation....Instead just call it 'The Outflank Mishap Table'...haha.

D6 Effect

1-2 Tactical Blunder! The outflanking maneuver has
been foreseen by the enemy. They were ready
and waiting for you to show up! Being unprepared
for this has cost you some heavy losses. Since there
was no where to advance through without getting
mowed down by enemy fire, the unit is destroyed!

3-4 Access Denied! The outflanking units see the imposing
threat of being annihilated. They have enough time to
turn around and try a different corridor of approach.
The opposing player has forced you to come in from
a table edge that is far off from the thick of battle. He then
gets to pick any edge on the table that he sees fit for your
units to come in on!

5-6 Delayed! The importance of coming in from a particular board
edge supersedes the impending danger you face. Your commander
would rather wait it out then reorganize his whole attack plan.
The outflanking unit is held back in reserve waiting for a hole
to be punched through the enemies defenses!

What if the enemy Kroots all four table edges?

I would shout 'DYNAMIC ENTRY!' and plough on anyway. Social interaction is for chumps.

There isn't a 'technical' or RaW for this question directly. The only thing I know is IF they can't come out by the end of the game, they are casualties....

Wow, good question.
I would assume that they're simply off the table edge, but would be able to assault.

Vehicles could tankshock for sure

Mellon wrote:Ah, it seems we have a language missunderstanding here. I interpreted "the game stalls" as "we need to stop playing, the game is over". :-)

...unless we introduce a house rule.

WHile there is no official answer, in previous GW GTs, Games Day tourneys, etc, the answer has always (to the best of my knowledge) been the same. The unit is destroyed. That's the ruling we used when I was head judge at the Baltimore Games Day RTTs, that's the ruling that was discussed by the GT judges beforehand (on the old Kommandoes forum) and used in the last US GT season. So while YMMV, that's the one I would go with.

Oh yeah, that's also the INAT answer for anyone planning on Adepticon or any other event that makes use of the INAT.