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So I have a tournament coming up on the 28, 1500 points. I made up two lists and I'm not sure which one I want to use.

eldrad- 210
Avatar- 155

dire avengers(8) exarch, power weapon and shimmer shield, bladestorm, defend- 153
wave serpent w/ tlbl, stones- 145
dire avengers(8) exarch, power weapon and shimmer shield, bladestorm, defend- 153
wave serpent w/ tlbl, stones- 145
guardians(10) scatter laser, warlock w/ embolden, spirit seer- 128

wraithlord w/ brightlance, eml- 155
wraithlord w/ brightlance, eml- 155
warwalkers(2) 2x scatter laser, 2x s. cannon- 100

total- 1499

Basically eldrad, avatar, guardians, wraithlords walk up the board shooting stuff. Wave serpents move around and shoot stuff. Walkers outflank and shoot whatever they can. DA rush for objectives near endgame.



farseer w/ fortune, doom, bike, r. of warding, stones- 175
warlocks(6) 6x bikes, 3 destructor, 1 enhance, 1 embolden- 323

dire avengers(8) exarch, power weapon and shimmer shield, bladestorm, defend- 153
wave serpent w/ eml, s. cannon, stones- 140
dire avengers(8) exarch, power weapon and shimmer shield, bladestorm, defend- 153
wave serpent w/ eml, s. cannon, stones- 140

Fire dragons(6)- 96
wave serpent w/ s. cannons, stones- 110
fire dragons(6)- 96
wave serpent w/ s. cannons, stones- 110

total- 1496

dragons zoom up and pop priority targets. seer council flanks to one side and DA serpents lay down fire from forward position darting in between cover.

I'll probably make up another list or two. The first list could probably drop some BL for another unit of something, I don't expect a ton of av14 at this points level but who knows.

All C & C welcome.

1st list looks interesting but to me is missing the one major thing which makes foot Eldar lists work, Harlequins. Without them you have nothing screening the Guardians to keep them alive if you expect to advance and stay in the Avatar's fearless bubble (Harlies are good for this as they are very difficult to shoot directly). Also not sure where you put Eldrad other than that Guardian unit (by himself he can be hit by S8 unit he fails a save). I don't like the mixed weapons loadout on the War Walkers, I would either find some points and run 2 Scatter Lasers each, or drop them both to 2 Shuriken Cannons and always outflank them (less issue with range). You could also run into issues keeping the Wraithlords alive unless you hug cover.

If you are just taking the DA for last second objective grabs then you could drop the size down or run Jetbikes instead.

1500 is probably a bit small for running a JetCouncil as you leave yourself very light on troops. In any case you could probably get away with a single unit of Fire Dragons in that list as the JetCouncil is pretty good in dealing with tanks anyway (against everything but Land Raiders really which is why you keep a unit of Fire Dragons). I would also never leave home without 2 Enhances on the Warlocks and the Farseer needs Runes of Witnessing as well (in case you run into Shadows of the Warp etc).

Dire Avengers loadout for both lists aren't really ideal, a Power Weapon, 5+ invulnerable and Defend isn't suddenly going to turn the Avengers into a decent combat unit and is pretty expensive as well. If you are going to run them in transports then either a full squad + Bladestorm Exarch or just 8-10 Dire Avengers with no Exarch is the way to go (or 5 Avengers if you only want a scoring vehicle but I don't like using that option). Remember that 2 turns of shooting without Bladestorm is more shots that 1 turn with Bladestorm.

First list will struggle against Horde list like Orks (hidden Power Claws) and Nids (they can easily do more MCs than you and have plenty of poison options avaliable). Second list relies on the Council heavily so will struggle if you run into Psychic defence or better hammer units (TH/SS etc) and is also light on troops which could be an issue depending on missions.

Second list is far better as it has synergy and meshes well. The first list is a mix of foot and armour, probably won't work too well against gunline armies which can snipe down the avatar and wraithlords - I used to run a list much like this and it failed :(

Second list is like my current list and done pretty well. Only thing I would say is drop all the rubbish from the avengers inc the exarch. Once these guys are out the transport they're pretty fragile. I would invest as less points in them as possible and just shoot the hell out of things.

The Bloody Handed God wrote:
So I have a tournament coming up on the 28, 1500 points. I made up two lists and I'm not sure which one I want to use.

eldrad- 210
Avatar- 155

dire avengers(8) exarch, power weapon and shimmer shield, bladestorm, defend- 153
wave serpent w/ tlbl, stones- 145
dire avengers(8) exarch, power weapon and shimmer shield, bladestorm, defend- 153
wave serpent w/ tlbl, stones- 145
guardians(10) scatter laser, warlock w/ embolden, spirit seer- 128

wraithlord w/ brightlance, eml- 155
wraithlord w/ brightlance, eml- 155
warwalkers(2) 2x scatter laser, 2x s. cannon- 100

total- 1499

Basically eldrad, avatar, guardians, wraithlords walk up the board shooting stuff. Wave serpents move around and shoot stuff. Walkers outflank and shoot whatever they can. DA rush for objectives near endgame.

well ... in 1500 pts i must say - its HUGE!!! the size of your BA...S man. To put eldrad in a 1500 competitive list its to much points for what he does. I never use him in less than 1750 pts list´s. But that´s my opinion!

was for wraitlords i dont used then, thanks to lootas stern guards and etc..

Avatar is Great for foot list´s, love him!!! The best model in eldar army

The Bloody Handed God wrote:
farseer w/ fortune, doom, bike, r. of warding, stones- 175
warlocks(6) 6x bikes, 3 destructor, 1 enhance, 1 embolden- 323

dire avengers(8) exarch, power weapon and shimmer shield, bladestorm, defend- 153
wave serpent w/ eml, s. cannon, stones- 140
dire avengers(8) exarch, power weapon and shimmer shield, bladestorm, defend- 153
wave serpent w/ eml, s. cannon, stones- 140

Fire dragons(6)- 96
wave serpent w/ s. cannons, stones- 110
fire dragons(6)- 96
wave serpent w/ s. cannons, stones- 110

total- 1496

dragons zoom up and pop priority targets. seer council flanks to one side and DA serpents lay down fire from forward position darting in between cover.

I'll probably make up another list or two. The first list could probably drop some BL for another unit of something, I don't expect a ton of av14 at this points level but who knows.

All C & C welcome.

Bro i like this one better! Fast ! playable! It was all that eldar nids! If it was moi i used this one

ps: Fire dragons & exarch breath of flame and crack shot - UURRRAAA best unit so far to my eldar!!!

farseer w/ fortune, doom, bike, r. of warding, stones- 175
warlocks(6) 6x bikes, 3 destructor, 1 enhance, 1 embolden- 323

dire avengers(8) exarch, power weapon and shimmer shield, bladestorm, defend- 153
wave serpent w/ eml, s. cannon, stones- 140
dire avengers(8) exarch, power weapon and shimmer shield, bladestorm, defend- 153
wave serpent w/ eml, s. cannon, stones- 140

Fire dragons(6)- 96
wave serpent w/ s. cannons, stones- 110
fire dragons(6)- 96
wave serpent w/ s. cannons, stones- 110

total- 1496

Looks quite good.
However, the Jetseer Council is a huge point sink.
You need both runes, especially vs. Nids.

mercer wrote:Second list is far better as it has synergy and meshes well. The first list is a mix of foot and armour, probably won't work too well against gunline armies which can snipe down the avatar and wraithlords - I used to run a list much like this and it failed :(

Second list is like my current list and done pretty well. Only thing I would say is drop all the rubbish from the avengers inc the exarch. Once these guys are out the transport they're pretty fragile. I would invest as less points in them as possible and just shoot the hell out of things.

I'm not looking to make them a good close combat unit, it just helps to make them stay around a turn or two longer. You'd be surprised how long they stay with the loadout. I'll probably drop it for some points though.

Looks quite good.
However, the Jetseer Council is a huge point sink.
You need both runes, especially vs. Nids.

I haven't played against the new nids and I think that will be one of my greatest challenges. I've been reading battle reports of them and space wolves as I haven't played a lot recently and haven't seen them played. I'm going to try and refine the lists though, they were just a loose start I made up last night.

mercer wrote:Second list is far better as it has synergy and meshes well. The first list is a mix of foot and armour, probably won't work too well against gunline armies which can snipe down the avatar and wraithlords - I used to run a list much like this and it failed :(

Second list is like my current list and done pretty well. Only thing I would say is drop all the rubbish from the avengers inc the exarch. Once these guys are out the transport they're pretty fragile. I would invest as less points in them as possible and just shoot the hell out of things.

This.

OK, put together another list. Added r. witnessing and a spear to the council. took out 1 dragons and made DA very basic squads and added a third. I put in 2 walkers with the remaining points for outflanking.

I wasn't sure whether or not I wanted to do the walkers or I could do a 3 man jetbike squad with a s. cannon. I just think the warwalkers would be of more use even if the gjg squad does add another, however small, troop unit.

Both lists are pretty cool,I like it a lot,but be ready to face some nids with trygons popping every where,and other lists that deepstrike most of their army,your fire power is not so sufficient,and you are not very fast either
This is what I think,not what it is

Realized I forgot to paste the list into the post. Oops.

I'm pretty much taking out the eldrad, avatar list.


farseer w/ fortune, doom, bike, are of warding, r. witnessing, stones- 185
warlocks(6) 6x bikes, 3 destructor, 1 enhance, 1 embolden, 1 spear- 326

dire avengers(8)- 96
wave serpent w/ eml, s. cannon, stones- 140
dire avengers(8)- 96
wave serpent w/ eml, s. cannon, stones- 140
dire avengers(8)- 96
wave serpent w/ s. lasers, s.cannon stones- 135

fire dragons(6)- 96
wave serpent w/ s. cannons, stones- 110

warwalker(2) w/ 4x s. cannons- 80

total-1500

Both lists are pretty cool,I like it a lot,but be ready to face some nids with trygons popping every where,and other lists that deepstrike most of their army,your fire power is not so sufficient,and you are not very fast either
This is what I think,not what it is .

I'm not familiar at all with the new nids. I have been trying to find as much as possible on them before the tournament. as for not enough firepower, I can see where youre coming from there. The seer council sort of takes a bit from the firepower. As for not being fast??? There is no faster army than the eldar.

How are you going to tackle armour?

Well, I'd take 2 full DA units with blade storm mounted in Serpents.
Spend the remaining points on heavy support.
Three War Walkers with shuricannons are 120 pts, the best bang for the bugs at 1500 pts.

mercer wrote:How are you going to tackle armour?

The dragons will deal with av13-14, the jetlock council can if needed with the spear. I honestly don't think I'll be encountering more than 1 av14 model in any of the armies. For everything av12 and below EML will work just fine.

wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I'd take 2 full DA units with blade storm mounted in Serpents.
Spend the remaining points on heavy support.
Three War Walkers with shuricannons are 120 pts, the best bang for the bugs at 1500 pts.

Can you give me explicit reasoning? The way I see it 80 points is enough for throw away if the war walkers come in on the wrong side. Also I get 1 more troops choice for objective (which is usually the bulk of the gametypes at my flgs) and one more WS.

Two full DA units in Serpents should suffice.
Let them disembark blade storming and embark in the next round for armored protection.

My only dilemma with that is I'd then have a bulk of unused points which I don't think I'd be able to use anywhere. It's 92 points to fill out both of the DA squads, then another 40 for the third warwalker. This leaves me with 99 points I'd have to figure out a place to put. If you have any suggestions where to put them I'm open to ideas but I'd like a whole army reasoning for it.

I'd consider a 2nd FD unit in a Serpent.

There's no points for it. I'd get the 6 dragons but no transport.

Try this instead.

The Bloody Handed God wrote:
farseer w/ fortune, doom, bike, are of warding, r. witnessing, stones- 185
warlocks(6) 6x bikes, 3 destructor, 1 enhance, 1 embolden, 1 spear- 326

No changes so far.

5x fire dragons - wave serpent w/ bright lance, s.cannon, stones

5x dire avengers - wave serpent w/ bright lance, s.cannon, stones
5x dire avengers - wave serpent w/ bright lance, s.cannon, stones
5x dire avengers - wave serpent w/ scatter laser, s.cannon, stones

2x war walkers w/4x scatter laser

Total 1491

Personally I would not chooce war walkers. They are too fragile, get smashed in CC or die by small arms fire, i.e. S4 bolters. I would take Falcons instead.
Take lances on your serpents to pop tabks, or scatter lasers against troops. Better than taking EML.
Fly a lot with your serpents, shoot, avoid CC and take objectives. Warlocks and Fire dragons go for attack. War Walkers shoot infantry.
You can drop one unit of DA and take a second unit of Fire Dragons. But only 2 troop choices are a bargain, even three are quite a challenge.

Unfocused.... the days where you can sit in the vehicles with cheap ineffective troops are long since over. You also never want a brightlance on the same serpent as your fire dragons... people are a afraid of both, if you put a bullseye on your fire dragons serpent like that, they'll go after the dragons first before anything else, you want them to ignore the dragons until its too late.

Rookie1 wrote:Try this instead.

The Bloody Handed God wrote:
farseer w/ fortune, doom, bike, are of warding, r. witnessing, stones- 185
warlocks(6) 6x bikes, 3 destructor, 1 enhance, 1 embolden, 1 spear- 326

No changes so far.

5x fire dragons - wave serpent w/ bright lance, s.cannon, stones

5x dire avengers - wave serpent w/ bright lance, s.cannon, stones
5x dire avengers - wave serpent w/ bright lance, s.cannon, stones
5x dire avengers - wave serpent w/ scatter laser, s.cannon, stones

2x war walkers w/4x scatter laser

Total 1491

Personally I would not chooce war walkers. They are too fragile, get smashed in CC or die by small arms fire, i.e. S4 bolters. I would take Falcons instead.
Take lances on your serpents to pop tabks, or scatter lasers against troops. Better than taking EML.
Fly a lot with your serpents, shoot, avoid CC and take objectives. Warlocks and Fire dragons go for attack. War Walkers shoot infantry.
You can drop one unit of DA and take a second unit of Fire Dragons. But only 2 troop choices are a bargain, even three are quite a challenge.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Try something really basic like this
Farseer Doom Runes of Warding
5 Dragons
Wave serpent with shuriken cannon & shuriken catapults & Spirit stones
10 banshees
Wave serpent with shuriken cannon & shuriken catapults & Spirit stones
10 dire avengers
Wave serpent with ELM & shuriken catapults
10 dire avengers
Wave serpent with ELM & shuriken catapults
2 x fire prism w/ holofields
and either
3 shuriken cannon warwalkers or another fire prism with holofields

It'll have a lot of firepower, its consistent, and its a lot of models for eldar at 1500

or run 2 wraithlords. and replace a dire avenger unit with a storm guardian unit 2x flamers, and warlock with destructor and shadowseer, run 3 warwalkers with shuriken cannons. That should be even better.

Hmm. Thanks for the input everyone. I think I want to try the final list I'd put together. Just learn how it works and all.

5x dire avengers - wave serpent w/ bright lance, s.cannon, stones
5x dire avengers - wave serpent w/ bright lance, s.cannon, stones
5x dire avengers - wave serpent w/ scatter laser, s.cannon, stones

Those units are not really helpful.
They have too less dakka.
I'd consider 2 full DA units with blade storm.

That's why i staed away from them. PLus brightlances on everything is sort of a bad loadout.

Any new insights? Only 5 days until the tournament.

The Bloody Handed God wrote:

farseer w/ fortune, doom, bike, r. of warding, stones- 175
warlocks(6) 6x bikes, 3 destructor, 1 enhance, 1 embolden- 323

dire avengers(8) exarch, power weapon and shimmer shield, bladestorm, defend- 153
wave serpent w/ eml, s. cannon, stones- 140
dire avengers(8) exarch, power weapon and shimmer shield, bladestorm, defend- 153
wave serpent w/ eml, s. cannon, stones- 140

Fire dragons(6)- 96
wave serpent w/ s. cannons, stones- 110
fire dragons(6)- 96
wave serpent w/ s. cannons, stones- 110

total- 1496

This, but drop the shimmer shield and defend and dual catapults and 10 DAs instead.

Tournament is tomorrow and I'm going with the final list as above. I'll post it down here just so people can see it.


farseer w/ fortune, doom, bike, are of warding, r. witnessing, stones- 185
warlocks(6) 6x bikes, 3 destructor, 1 enhance, 1 embolden, 1 spear- 326

dire avengers(8)- 96
wave serpent w/ eml, s. cannon, stones- 140
dire avengers(8)- 96
wave serpent w/ eml, s. cannon, stones- 140
dire avengers(8)- 96
wave serpent w/ s. lasers, s.cannon stones- 135

fire dragons(6)- 96
wave serpent w/ s. cannons, stones- 110

warwalker(2) w/ 4x s. cannons- 80

total-1500

I'll post the results sometimes tomorrow night.

wuestenfux wrote:

5x dire avengers - wave serpent w/ bright lance, s.cannon, stones
5x dire avengers - wave serpent w/ bright lance, s.cannon, stones
5x dire avengers - wave serpent w/ scatter laser, s.cannon, stones

Those units are not really helpful.
They have too less dakka.
I'd consider 2 full DA units with blade storm.

Wuest hit this on the head. 5 DA's are great for filling out points, if you are relying on them to be a real unit... you'll be disappointed.
Having multiple units of them is just watering down an army to ineffectiveness.

Which is why I don't do it.

The Bloody Handed God wrote:Which is why I don't do it.

Obviously. I was referencing the people above talking about bringing minsquads in serpents.

Zain60 wrote:

The Bloody Handed God wrote:Which is why I don't do it.

Obviously. I was referencing the people above talking about bringing minsquads in serpents.

MSU is the way competitive 40k is played today.

If you are forced out of your transports, you are at a disadvantage already.

imweasel wrote:

Zain60 wrote:

The Bloody Handed God wrote:Which is why I don't do it.

Obviously. I was referencing the people above talking about bringing minsquads in serpents.

MSU is the way competitive 40k is played today.

If you are forced out of your transports, you are at a disadvantage already.

Co-sign this.