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Hey guys, wondering if anyone can point out improvements etc... Here goes....

HQ
Pedro Kantor
Darnath Lysander

Elite

2x 10 man sternguard w/drop pods and 2 combi weapons with powerfist on Sarges
Venerable Dread with Drop pod Plasma Cannon and DCCW
(also considering bringing a 3rd sternguard instead of Dread with drop pod would have to drop the 5man tac and razor back)

Troops
2 x 10 man Tac Squads ML, Flamer with Drop pods, Sarges have PF
1 5man Tac with razorback TLLC
1 5man Scout with Telion upgrade snipers, camo

Heavy
2x Vindicators with Siege shields
1 Vanilla Land Raider

I would drop Lysander and Pedro with the sternguard with the Dread on turn 1 - would try to drop near each other. Lysander has bolter drill and is a combat beast, Pero makes the Sternguard scoring and gives +1 attack to all units within 12". the other tactical squads could be used later for objective reinforcement or taking as they come on.

The LR is included to be a gun platform or secondary transport if needed.

I did a test game this past weekend (used 3 sterguard squads instead of Ven Dread) and due to some ill advised decision on my part , dropped to close to a rhino spam chaos army and forgetting to get my scout squad deployed didn't fair so well. But I feel it was more the general than the list that was the weakness. Anyway looking for any constructive criticism.

CSM ?

Did you mean C:SM as Codex: Space Marines?

yeah Codex Space Marines.....

looks pretty solid i must say. I don't know if i'd say lysanders is beast in combat but then again i haven't looked at em in a while. Personally i'd favour the dread to the 3rd sternguard unit, otherwise i'd say its good, but then again who cares what i think

I have run a sternguard drop pod list for while now. You are going to want that third sternguard for sure, plus upgrade them to have more combi melta's, I would say at least half the squad ( I run 10 in mine). Also Vindy's are infinatlly better with Chronys ( spelling ). I have to say the Land raider feels out of place, I think you can do better with 250 points, Land speeder typhoons are fun. I would also suggest finding a way to get a missle launcher into that scout squad. Good luck!

I think the Land Raider and Lysander are out of place in this list.

If you've got all the Sterguard and Tac Squads in Drop Pods, there will be very few instances where the LR's transport capacity will be useful. Certainly not worth a LR's cost wirth of instances.

Having one guy in Terminator Armor isn't going to do a whole lot for you. A far better choice would be to take one of the numerous HQ choices in power armor, so that you can stuff him in a drop pod with one of your scoring units. A librarian might be a good choice, seeing as you lack psyker capabilities.

I'd get rid of the Land Raider completely. I don;t have my codex with me, so I'm not 100% on this, but i think with that amount of points you could get a Predator with Chronus.

Alternatively, get a Thunderfire Cannon plus a Drop Pod with Deathwind ML. You can always deploy them separately. Keep the TFC at the rear, drop the pod somewhere it can annoy the enemy. The strongest pod lists have tons of pods.

Which brings me to my next point. If you take that third Sternguard Squad, take a MotF as your second HQ choice. Replace those Vindicators with Dreadnoughts in Drop pods for ultimate SPHEEHS MAARHINES STEEHL RAHNE win.

Likewise, that one Tac Squad in the Razorback seems out of place. Freeing up those points would help with any of the suggestions above.

I would say definitely drop lysander and the land raider. They just don't seem to fit in this list.

As Endova said, you can use a TFC. Personally, I have had great luck with it and take it in my 1850 salamanders. It has potential to pile wounds on squads. The only problem with it is that it will become separated from the army.

For the HQ, I would go with Pedro and a librarian. If there is pts left over then make the librarian epistolary. With this kind of list null zone doesn't really fit. If you were to do that I would use force dome and gate of infinity.

I have to disagree with the two above posters. Lysander is a fantastic HQ for the podding sternguard. Not neccesarily better than the gating librarian, but allowing your sternguard to reroll hits is a really nice feature, esspecially with the gets hot ap 3 rounds. Master of the forge is actually a pretty good call also though if you want dreads, so again, I am not trying to say that lysander is the right choice, just that he fits sternguard well IMO

I will agree that at least with this list the bolter drill on lysander would actually be used. However the real argument for dropping lysander is just the points. I feel that with a gating librarian he has big potential to some even nastier things.

On a side note, lysander is a beast of an hq. If not for vulkan he'stan, lysander would be in every list i made.

Holy crap, I actually made nearly this same exact list!

Here are my thoughts on it, you have several drop pod options, meaning if they hold in reserve, you can just drop and run for cover to hold down part of the table. The bulk of your army is designed to hit on turn one, and that means you want those that aren't dropping to hit turn 2 at the latest, as such I think you should consider dropping the vindicators for something that can shoot across the map. I like AC/Las predators for 120 a pop, they can sit back and open fire from turn 1. The scout squad is nice in that you can use it to hold an objective, but they don't really inflict a lot of damage, and telion is very expensive for what he (unreliably) does. This list is troops heavy coming in at 6 scoring units, bearing in mind the sterngaurd are going to get hit hard if they don't get into cover. I would try to get the stern up to 4-6 combi-weapons, 3 meltas gives them a very good chance to hit AV 14 hard, and having excess allows you to either pick up some other combis, or combat squad and split fire. I love the powerfists on the stern with Pedro's +1 attack.

Finally, think about bringing in some cheap melta in the form of attack bike squads (50 points per melta), which can move 24" down field to group up with the drop pod guys quickly, or you can get the MM/heavy flamer landspeeder at 70 points a pop, which can either move flat out to catch up, or deep strike in. I usually prefer the cheaper bikes, but I would suggest bringing in the landspeeders for your list.

In short though, I like it a lot!

My thoughts on Lysander and the Sternguard in general:

-Darnath is 8 Sternguard.
-Darnath is 6 Sternguard, 3 Combi-Meltas and a Drop Pizzod/Rhino.
-Darnath will probably never do what either of those options can do.

If you take pedro then you should take plenty of sternguard. If you take lysander you should take terminators as his bolter drill works on storm bolters. You have sternguard, which is fine. But not terminators and where is lysander going? In the land raider by himself?

While both HQ's are a benefit I think lysander will hold you back because he's assault and the sternguard are a shooting unit. Pedro gives just as much benefit in c.c as lysander does himself. So I would drop lysander and drop the solo land raider, as it adds nothing.

I would drop the power fists on the sternguard. Sternguard are primarily a shooting unit and can hold there own in assault. Use the points to get combi weapons to suit your purpose.

I would drop the dread and pod because it has no dual threat and will be easily picked out. I would get another sternguard unit.

As you have plenty of sternguard (which can score) you can cut back on the troops. I would take just 2 units of full tacticals like you have but give them multi meltas as your drop podding into range.

Then throw in some land speeders with multi meltas and heavy flamers for anti tank and anti horde.

Keep the vindicators, they're pretty good. Any points spare I would get a thunderfire cannon and have it as a annoying threat in terrain at some distance away.

I would keep the scouts but bump them up to 10 man. In my experience, the most effective use of scout snipers is to force pinning tests. 10 guys are twice as good at that as 5.

I would agree with keeping the vindis. Though I have no luck with mine, they are great at soaking fire. It is always nice for your opponent to have to make hard decisions between 2 big blasts, combi weapons on the sternguard, land speeders, etc.

Really consider a TFC though, I'm telling you, it is underrated.

mercer wrote: where is lysander going? In the land raider by himself?

He goes with sternguard, bolterdrill allows rerolls with special ammo

Yes yes I know how it works. But my point is lysander is a hard hitting assault unit and sternguard shooting. Lysander cannot get into assault where he shines if sternguard rapid fire. Thats why lysander is perhaps better with normal terminators so can shoot and assault.

I appreciate the comments. One question that I have thought is the question about Lysander's transport. They way I read the codex on page 102 is that a model in terminator armor counts as 2 for embarkation purposes and that the only restrictions is that they may not use rhinos or razorbacks. so he should be able to land with a sternguard squad as the drop pod is a 12man transport and with only 10 sterngaurd leaves room for Lysander. Now if I am mistaken or ignorant of some probition to using this please point that out in the rules. But if a dread can drop in a pod I dont see why a IC in TDA cant esp given the codex p 102 as well as p66 of AOBR rulebook. This is the first list I have included Lysander so I want to make sure I am within the rules.

Therefore with Lysander the sternguard can reroll hits as well as he will make any assault unit think twice about charging into his sternguard squad. his 4 attacks with a master thunder hammer and the base 2 attacks from the sternguard with a power fist is not something to sneeze at especially if Pedro is within 12" you just upped the attacks by1 for everyone. and dont forget his ability to bolster defenses so you can upgrade defenses by 1 take a 4+ cover to 3+ which could come in handy. The big point of Lysander is that he can really make a big difference in close combat and that may deter or prevent your sternguard from getting wiped out and inversely destroying the assaulters.

I am thinking of dropping the LR, the scout squad and the combat squad with the razorback and bringing a third vindicator and a 10 man assault squad (two flamers) with sarge with PW and Storm shield and I would use this unit as mainly a countercharge unit. If Pedro is close a counter charge would be pretty devestating with 4 attacks. I would also put a locator beacon on one drop pod and also put the DW launcher on the three pods carrying sternguard coming in on turn 1. or i could not do that and take those 60 points for an attack bike or LS


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If everything goes as planned the LGS is going to run a 2500 ard boyz warm up this Saturday and another in april before the ard boyz in May. Gonna be using past scenarios. Unless something unexpected comes up I will be at both of those and I will post the results

My only question is that one of your hq has to be declared as your main hq and everything works with him. Thus all the abilities you would of gained from the other hq are lost, per RAW..

The issue I see is that you have one light tank and two med tank and one heavy tank. In that order I see the light and heavy tank gone on the first turn if not the second turn. The other two tanks will be dealt with in short order...Either go drop and or bring in some more things to block los and fire lanes. I myself run three Vanq tanks in IG and they have more than cleaned up there fair share of LR and with a standard rhino up front, they taking a three plus save.

If your going to run the lr then build around it with support. That way people are going to have to make some tactical plays in order to stop it.

The other issue is that your home objectives are going to be weak because of your troop selection. I would up the basic tactical side as the bolter is a strong weapon on its on in numbers.

I would also change to a multi melta on the dread as it far out weights the plasma cannon. I guess you hoping to drop in a burn something that packed in. Having that pod dread will force people to bunch up a bit more to cover that lane. Putting a easy kill out in the open would be a waste being that the dread would just clean it up.

pnjrebel wrote:

Therefore with Lysander the sternguard can reroll hits as well as he will make any assault unit think twice about charging into his sternguard squad. his 4 attacks with a master thunder hammer and the base 2 attacks from the sternguard with a power fist is not something to sneeze at especially if Pedro is within 12" you just upped the attacks by1 for everyone. and dont forget his ability to bolster defenses so you can upgrade defenses by 1 take a 4+ cover to 3+ which could come in handy. The big point of Lysander is that he can really make a big difference in close combat and that may deter or prevent your sternguard from getting wiped out and inversely destroying the assaulters.

Lysander only makes bolters reroll to hit, not in assault. Any dedicated assault unit will not fear assaulting lysander and sternguard. Like I said you use lysander to re-roll to hit with the sternguard, then lysander cannot assault, which is where he belongs. You assault with lysander and the sternguard means you can only shoot bolter pistols which cannot use the special ammo, sternguard are a shooting unit not a assault unit.

Lysander and sternguard do not mesh well and both are opposites. You want a unit to benefit from lysanders bolter drill then get terminators, as already mentioned.

As Tarval said if you take 2 HQ's with chapter tactics you need to pick which one, though Pedro's is the best because it gives stubborn and lets sternguard score while lysander just gives stubborn only. Though any units will get +1 attack from pedro as that is not chapter tactics rule but a special rule for that HQ choice