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do tau devilfish on their own count as troop choices?

There was a thread that had this question posed a few months back. In the end, I believe the majority of the community feels that the devilfish cannot be taken as a standalone troop choice because of the "Transport:" in the title. For reference, here is the thread, it's full of random questions, but if you scroll through it, you'll find what I'm talking about.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/263345.page

EDIT: Clarity

khuffy wrote:do tau devilfish on their own count as troop choices?

To summarize: if you play it that way, then it breaks the game for Tau.

Short Answer: No

Long Answer: Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

I personally think the RAW would allow it still, although I accept that the odds of anyone agreeing to play that way are slim to none.

There was a large amount of argument about this when the Tau codex came out.

The pro argument was as follows:

A. The unit is a Transport, not a Dedicated Transport.
B. It is in the Troops section of the codex.
C. Other armies had transport units which were not dedicated transports and were included in the Heavy section of their codex. (Land Raider, for example.) This was also referenced in the main rules.

The anti argument was basically that it is a Dedicated Transport.

There was much discussion about whether it mattered that the unit was inside a grey box, and so on.

The FAQ said it was a dedicated transport.

Under 5e the matter is far less important since there aren't dedicated transports any more.

Kilkrazy wrote:Under 5e the matter is far less important since there aren't dedicated transports any more.

I think you will find there are plenty of dedicated transports, it's just that other units can hop in them now

That is the key point.

In effect they aren't dedicated.

Kilkrazy wrote:There was a large amount of argument about this when the Tau codex came out.

The pro argument was as follows:

A. The unit is a Transport, not a Dedicated Transport.
B. It is in the Troops section of the codex.
C. Other armies had transport units which were not dedicated transports and were included in the Heavy section of their codex. (Land Raider, for example.) This was also referenced in the main rules.

The anti argument was basically that it is a Dedicated Transport.

There was much discussion about whether it mattered that the unit was inside a grey box, and so on.

The FAQ said it was a dedicated transport.

Under 5e the matter is far less important since there aren't dedicated transports any more.

Was this back before the Tau Empire codex was released? Because in the current codex it's not inside a grey box, it's listed exactly the same as any other unit, the only thing that suggests AT ALL that it can't be taken as a standard troops choice is that its Name (the title listed at the top of its entry) is "Transport: Devilfish Troop Carrier".

Kilkrazy wrote:That is the key point.

In effect they aren't dedicated.

They're "dedicated" in the sense that they are purchased part and parcel with an owning unit. They've removed the exclusive rights to ride in it, though.

Just to be a little bit of a nutter: There's a grey side bar next to each unit entry with the appropriate forceorg symbol and title. While the Devilfish appears under the general troops header its title is JUST 'transport'. Not 'troops' not 'fast attack' just transport.

It has no special rule saying it can be bought outside the forceorg chart so it can only be taken by other units which allow its purchase.

Slackermagee wrote:Just to be a little bit of a nutter: There's a grey side bar next to each unit entry with the appropriate forceorg symbol and title. While the Devilfish appears under the general troops header its title is JUST 'transport'. Not 'troops' not 'fast attack' just transport.

an Interesting point, of course it uses the Troops icon still, and I think while it perhaps lends more support to the RAI, given we have not been told what those bars actually indicate, and it is still in the Troops section, there's no reason that the RAW couldn't still mean that it can be taken as a troops selection on it's own.

Mannahnin wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:That is the key point.

In effect they aren't dedicated.

They're "dedicated" in the sense that they are purchased part and parcel with an owning unit. They've removed the exclusive rights to ride in it, though.

And, of course, only the unit it was bought for can start the game in a "dedicated transport". So yeah, there are still dedicated transports. And of course, for some armies (DH), they're more dedicated than others..............

What do the drones on the devilfish count as if anybody doesn't mind answering me I don't know, no tau codex available to me.

they count as drones. which leads to an interesting problem with tau devilfish and kill point missions as according to the rules, whenever a DF is destroyed the drones automatically dis-engage and create a new unit with its own easy to kill KP.

Which is why you always upgrade to SMS.

Slackermagee wrote:Which is why you always upgrade to SMS.

'

Unless you would prefer the cheaper drones so that in non KP missions your devilfish can be a scoring threat even without a troops unit embarked in them.