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I would mainly be versing IG and SM.
Avatar:
Farseer ROW, Stones, fortune, guide
Guardians (10): Brightlance,
Guardians (10): Brightlance,
Guardians (10): Brightlance,

Warwalkers (3) 2X Scatter laser
Wave Sperpent two Shuriken cannons, stones
Fire Dragons (6)
Fire dragons (6)
Wave serpent two shuriken cannons, stones


Total: 1217

Firstly the I.G and S.M armies are they mech or foot armies or mix?

Eldrad is a 1,500 points army is too much. He just zaps too much points. A normal farseer with runes (the one which lets you take your test on 3D6 and disgard the lowest) is handy and so is the other runes if you face plenty of psykers.

Warp spiders aren't too good and always best taken in 2 units for dual threat. With lack of ap they will struggle to take down armour and troops.

You need more troops. 20 guardians on foot with a 5+ cover save won't last long. Starcannon is a bit naff too, go brightlance for anti tank, something this army lacks.

A wave serpent with twin-linked shriuken cannons would be cheaper and more affective than a falcon with holo fields because it keeps the dragons protected better. Also the shuri cannons give anti troop support once the dragons have popped the transport..

...you need 2 dragon units because they're throw away units. Whatever they break will attract attention or the unit inside will waste them. Tank hunter is a waste on them as they have enough meltas to wreck a titan and the exarch can be dropped as adds little to the unit.

Tried banshees found them ok but they lack armour saves and strength to do any real damage. Also wave serpents are not assault vehicles and the hatch is at the rear. I run striking scorpions with a claw; not the best assault unit but last longer than banshees (and don't run away from heavy flamers!) and are stronger too, plus have more attacks.

btw - all the crap on the serpent you can drop as well. You need brightlances on it to act as a tag team so you can pop the transport and then assault the unit inside with the banshees.

first edit out all the upgrade points cost, it infringes GW copyright, and a mod will delete your post if you dont.

Second, suprise assault is dumb, there jump infantry, they can already deepstrike via the main rulebook, why are you paying for something you already get.

Starcannons are a waste, get scatter lasers. conceal is also a waste, just hide them in cover, you get a 4+ instead of a 5+. If you are you going to take a warlock, embolden is the better power, but I think the warlock is a waste of points all together.

The falcon needs a gun, you cant not take a second gun, so you need to adjust your points there.

Fire dragon exarch and ability is a complete waste, they dont need tank hunters, the meltas are good enough as it is.

Banshees exarch the executioner is a better weapon overall.

All the junk you have on your wave serpent is 100% waste of points. Get rid of vector and star engines (you really need to move 36" a turn?). Stones are the only worthy upgrade.

I wouldnt put fire dragons inside a falcon, put them in a waveserpent, there more durable in close range than HF falcons. Put 5 dire avengers in the falcon for a tough scoring unit.

You could also do without eldrad, a regular farseer with doom, guide/fortune (depends who you stick him with, id give him fortune and stick him with banshees since there terrible save needs a reroll).

Eldrad 210
Warp Spiders (10)220 15 12 10 Exarch w/ Spinneret rifle, powerblades and Surprise Assault
Guardians (10): 80 25 15 Starcannon, Warlock w/ conceal
Guardians (10): 80 25 15 Starcannon, Warlock w/ conceal

Warwalkers (3) 90 90 2X Scatter laser
Falcon 115 35 holo-field
Fire Dragons (6) 96 12 15 Exarch w/ Tank hunters
Howling Banshees (10) 160 10 12 Exarch w/ Mirrorswords
Wave serpent 90 65 two shuriken cannons, vector, star engines, stones

Looks semi-competitive.
If you use Eldrad and Guardian Defenders, then add an Avatar so that the Guardians can walk in his fearless bubble.
I'd drop the Falcon for a Serpent. Don't go over board with upgrades for the Serpents, just stones and shuricannons.

I'll add to Wuestenfux's comments. The Avatar in a list tailored to really use his abilities is good, so if you do that, run 6 guardian squads. The fun part about that is that guardians are so cheap, and 60 fearless guardians with brightlances are so crazy.. plus, you can then get 6 shuriken cannon waveserpents, and it fits in 1500. Then of course you won't need eldrad... and you might want a counter assault unit, like banshees.. hmm maybe 40 guardians with 4 brightlances, and 2 units of rangers... some banshees to scare assault away, and... hmmm heavy support... wraithlords. Except that won;t fit in 1500 all nice and clean like.

Sorry Wusten :p

Wolfie... think more about your list.. what kills IG And SM... flamers and meltas... or mass fire power (like the warwalkers, but I think they are too fragile, unless you are sneaky with them.)

Maybe you can get your warpspiders into assault against marines... in that case you want fortune and doom, and withdraw for sure. But banshees.... with a shuriken serpent, are so crazy efficient with fortune and doom... that I can't say take spiders at all.

Guardians with starcannon... don't give much return... basically you want to crack vehicles with their platform gun, and hold objectives, so give ELM or especially Brightlance to them. but they lack leadership... so... keep that in mind... with just two units I can't say taking the avatar is really worth it... it might be.

A falcon requres a secondary weapon... once you tack on holofields and probably an ELM or brightlance you are looking at nearly 200pts... kinda pricy at 1500, unless you got a serious plan... usually i don't have a plan, so go with a wraithlord or fire prism, and i suscribe to holofields with no other toys.

Fire dragons, do not need tankhunters, but.. if you have enough dragons, an exarch wth the flamer and crack shot provides excellent utlity against IG and SM.

Banshees... their exarch does the least for the unit... unless you are dying to buy acrobatics... no exarch... if you do get an exarch... you want an executioner blade... str5 is nice to have. No real need for star engines on their transport, unless you just want it... if you want it.. do it... but usually you don't need it.

I chatter a lot, but at least some of what i say is sound

ok i changed my list

i changed Eldrad into Farseer with fortune, guide stones an ROW

i added Avatar

Got rid of warp spiders

Added another guardian squad of 10 with brightlance

Changed falcon into wave serpent with stones and shuriken cannons

got rid of Howling banshees and got another Fire dragon squad of 6

both dragon squads dont have exarch

now im free a lot of points.

Im thinking of maybe using swooping hawks but dont know if they are good.

The IG will have 2 tanks usually the one with the plasma cannon and he has plasma cannon sponsons, a couple chimeras, sometimes a valkyrie.
I havnt played the SM yet but ive seen him verse the IG and he used rhinos and Land raiders and used 1 squad of termies and 1 squad of assault and rest tacs i think.

Your farseer has fortune, and no units worthy of fortune. If you are going mostly footsloggy, you need a counter charge unit or actually you have enough points for 10 banshes and another waveserpent, then you'll have a need for both doom (on the unit the banshees will kill) and fortune (on banshees, not too useful for its points on anything else) and guide (warwalkers)

Avatar:
Farseer ROW, Stones, fortune, guide
Guardians (10): Brightlance,
Guardians (10): Brightlance,
Guardians (10): Brightlance,

Warwalkers (3) 2X Scatter laser
Wave Sperpent two Shuriken cannons, stones
Fire Dragons (6)
Fire dragons (6)
Wave serpent two shuriken cannons, stones

I'd give the Guardians scatter lasers since the Fire Dragons can take on the heavy tanks.
As you have some points to spare, I'd consider either two Fire Prisms or a Harlie squad for counter-strike.

Sazzlefrats wrote:Your farseer has fortune, and no units worthy of fortune. If you are going mostly footsloggy, you need a counter charge unit or actually you have enough points for 10 banshes and another waveserpent, then you'll have a need for both doom (on the unit the banshees will kill) and fortune (on banshees, not too useful for its points on anything else) and guide (warwalkers)

he got an Avatar...

im planning to keep my guardians back with the seer and avatar to shoot up the enemy and ya scatter laser would be better now because of the dragons and should i get a full squad of harlies and put them in a wave serpent or keep them close to the guardians?