Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

After seeing the new Deff Dread and Killa Kan models (and the fact that a friend was selling some Orks incredibly cheap), I decided to start me up an Ork army based around those new sexy, stompy beasts. Here's my plan currently, any and all suggestions/criticisms/complaints/insults are happily accepted.

HQs:
2x Big Mek: KFF, 'Eavy Armour, 3 Grot Oilers
Elites:
15 Lootas
7 Kommandos (Two with Burnas)
Troops:
2x Deff Dread: 2 Extra Close Combat Weapons
30 Boyz in 'Eavy Armour, Nob with PK
30 Shoota Boyz, Nob with PK
30 Boyz, Nob with PK
Heavy Support:
9x Killa Kan: 3 Grotzookas, 3 Rokkit Launchas, 3 Big Shootas


This is what I have set up so far. General plan is stick one Big Mek with the 'Eavy Armour boyz, have him walk up the field with the Dreads, other Mek with the shoota boyz and the Kans. Last squad of boyz is for holding points.Considering maybe dropping the Big Shoota Kans for another Dread, and maybe dropping the Lootas for some Deffkoptas (I have 6 AoBR ones), and splitting the lone boyz squad into 2 15 man squads (more if I drop the Kommandos).

As I said, anything is happily accepted.

You have a solid kan wall list here. Keep the max kans, as 3 kans are much better than 1 dred. Getting the dreds as troops choices makes them worthwhile to get.

Are the regular boyz just slugga and choppa boyz? Just curious. Might be better to have them all shootas, as a solid wall of fire is always hard to opponent infantry to contest.

Any of the boyz units have a bosspole? Dropping a few grot oilers to give bosspoles might be a better allocation for points.

Otherwise it looks like a good list for Kan wallin'/foot sloggin'.

With all the cover you have in there, the Heavy Armor on the boyz seems like a bit of a waste :O

Well having ard boys is never bad, just for the reason blocking the other boyz, but with the kan wall , you might as well just make em all shooty, then you will get a better result overall.

WarOne wrote:You have a solid kan wall list here. Keep the max kans, as 3 kans are much better than 1 dred. Getting the dreds as troops choices makes them worthwhile to get.

Are the regular boyz just slugga and choppa boyz? Just curious. Might be better to have them all shootas, as a solid wall of fire is always hard to opponent infantry to contest.

Any of the boyz units have a bosspole? Dropping a few grot oilers to give bosspoles might be a better allocation for points.

Otherwise it looks like a good list for Kan wallin'/foot sloggin'.

Alright, keep the Kans. Should I keep the same weapon setup I have for them now?
Yes, the basic boyz are just slugga and choppa. I actually hadn't thought of just making them all shootas to stand on points and just lay down waves of bullets... I like it.
I went back over my list, and I'd put bosspoles on all the nobs and forgot. Woops.

number9dream wrote:With all the cover you have in there, the Heavy Armor on the boyz seems like a bit of a waste :O

I just figured since the KFF doesn't work in close combat, it'd be nice to have 'ard boyz hitting their lines along with the two Dreads.

TheTrueProtoman wrote:Well having ard boys is never bad, just for the reason blocking the other boyz, but with the kan wall , you might as well just make em all shooty, then you will get a better result overall.

So take them as shooty? Even the ones running with the Dreads?



Thanks for everything so far.

Drop the kommandos as they're out of place in this list. get another unit of lootas instead.

Ard boyz don't last much longer than regular boyz and orks relie on weight in numbers. Only purpose ard boyz would be here is last that tiny little bit better in combat as the kanz already give the orks a cover save.

Also, shoota boyz as mentioned. Rokkits in the mobz would help as well.

It looks pretty good to me, let me know how it turns out.

Sir Wat wrote:After seeing the new Deff Dread and Killa Kan models (and the fact that a friend was selling some Orks incredibly cheap), I decided to start me up an Ork army based around those new sexy, stompy beasts. Here's my plan currently, any and all suggestions/criticisms/complaints/insults are happily accepted.

HQs:
2x Big Mek: KFF, 'Eavy Armour, 3 Grot Oilers
Elites:
15 Lootas
7 Kommandos (Two with Burnas)
Troops:
2x Deff Dread: 2 Extra Close Combat Weapons
30 Boyz in 'Eavy Armour, Nob with PK
30 Shoota Boyz, Nob with PK
30 Boyz, Nob with PK
Heavy Support:
9x Killa Kan: 3 Grotzookas, 3 Rokkit Launchas, 3 Big Shootas


This is what I have set up so far. General plan is stick one Big Mek with the 'Eavy Armour boyz, have him walk up the field with the Dreads, other Mek with the shoota boyz and the Kans. Last squad of boyz is for holding points.Considering maybe dropping the Big Shoota Kans for another Dread, and maybe dropping the Lootas for some Deffkoptas (I have 6 AoBR ones), and splitting the lone boyz squad into 2 15 man squads (more if I drop the Kommandos).

As I said, anything is happily accepted.

Make all your boyz shoota boyz. This is a shooty list and you want to shoot with your boyz as long as possible. Close combat is to be avoided until the enemy units are weakened through shooting. Give the units 3 big shootas each if you have the points.

Drop the heavy armor it's not necessary with the Kan wall in front of them.

Give all the Kanz KMB or Rockitts if you can.

Drop Kommandos. They are great against certain units but those aren't common enough to justify them. If you want to harass with outflanking try deffkoptas instead.

Add at least another loota unit if not 2.

Maybe consider some trukk boyz for objective taking late game. Kan wall is a great list but it's biggest weakness is mobility. Possibly dump one of the 30 man boyz units to afford that.

Alright, taking all the advice given in here (which was awesome, thanks! ), I have a newer list.

HQ:
Two Big Meks, each with KFF and 3 Grot Oilers
Elites:
Two squads of 15 Lootas
Troops:
Two Deff Dreads, both with Two extra CCW, Grot Riggers, and Armour Plates
Two 30-man boyz nob, all shootas, 3 Big Shootas, and a Nob with PK and Boss Pole
12 Man boyz squad, all shootas, one Big Shoota, Nob with Bosspole, in a Trukk (I have this barebones right now. Should I maybe drop the PKs off the other nobs and give it some upgrades?)
Heavy Support:
3 Kans with Rokkits, 3 with KMBs, and 3 with Grotzookas

This is (unless I calculated wrong, which is entirely possible), 1997 points.
Any other advice/modifications greatly appreciated!

I like it. I'd get a Reinforced Ram on the Trukk so that it can scream through terrain to get to where it needs to go. If you need to strip points, I would say just go with rokkits on your kans instead of KMB and you save 15 points. That could be a ram and something else, maybe armor plates, to keep it moving. I am not a huge fan of the KMB since the only advantage seems to be killing things like Terminators, but they still have invulnerable saves. Dunno, your call.

Alternatively, you can shave points by dropping one of the loota squads from 15 down to 2 loota squads of 5 or 6. This would allow you to shoot more targets per turn and devalues their loss if someone shoots them down or they flee. I like 6 because it makes for easy math in how many hits I can hope for per turn (2/4/6 depending on the d3 shots per turn results).

Another alternative to consider is having a unit of grots in reserve. They are cheap and their only job is to come in on turn 3-4, run for an uncontested objective, and camp there (hopefully in cover, going to ground). 19 grots plus a slaver costs 67 points. They can't move as far as a trukk or do much when they get to where they are going, but if you plan for it by placing your objectives deep in your deployment zone, they are often uncontested for you to grab in the late game. In KP games, just keep the grots buried in a table corner and usually no one can reach them.

Not sure if the grot oilers are really worth it. I know they're only 15 points, but still, you could upgrade your rokkit kans to KMB Kans. Sure the KMB is only better in certain situations, 2+ saves, you'll be happy to have it when you need it. I run all my Kans with KMBs. I'd drop the grotzookas, they're cool but you've already got crowd control with your mobs of shootas.

I like giving my Deff Dreds 1 DCCW, Skorcha, riggers, Extra Armor. The Skorcha blast right before charging makes him an objective clearer and gives him more punch against mobs.

The squad of trukk boyz is strange to me. It'll be running out way in front of your army since it goes at least twice as fast as everything else. 1 trukk = dead trukk and 12 dead boyz. Think about using these points elsewhere. You could make that mob about 20 strong if you drop the trukk, nothing to sneeze at. OR you could add big grot mobs or big gunz if you're feeling crazy.

Otherwise this is a solid kan wall list. Nothing fancy or bold, but it will certainly get the job done.

Hmm, I'm liking the idea of using some grots... I've always liked the little buggers, and the idea of all the stompy things going about, wrecking things up, then the grots coming in to collect scraps for the Meks makes me happy.

indigo_jones wrote:Not sure if the grot oilers are really worth it. I know they're only 15 points, but still, you could upgrade your rokkit kans to KMB Kans. Sure the KMB is only better in certain situations, 2+ saves, you'll be happy to have it when you need it. I run all my Kans with KMBs. I'd drop the grotzookas, they're cool but you've already got crowd control with your mobs of shootas.

I like giving my Deff Dreds 1 DCCW, Skorcha, riggers, Extra Armor. The Skorcha blast right before charging makes him an objective clearer and gives him more punch against mobs.

The squad of trukk boyz is strange to me. It'll be running out way in front of your army since it goes at least twice as fast as everything else. 1 trukk = dead trukk and 12 dead boyz. Think about using these points elsewhere. You could make that mob about 20 strong if you drop the trukk, nothing to sneeze at. OR you could add big grot mobs or big gunz if you're feeling crazy.

Otherwise this is a solid kan wall list. Nothing fancy or bold, but it will certainly get the job done.

My only problem with KMBs is I'm fairly certain that the Kan boxes don't come with any. I was just going to use the ones from the Dread boxes (two a piece), and have a squad with them. I think I have a couple basic Mekboyz, but theirs don't seem they'd be big enough, or are they the same?

I actually hadn't thought about giving a Skorcha to the Dreads, and I like it. Seems much more killy than one more attack. Plus that gives me 20 more points to screw around with.

As I said, I'm loving the idea of all the grots coming up behind (credit to Skarboy for suggesting it, too), but couldn't the trukk be kept in reserves and roll in (hopefully) a bit later, and then speed for something?


Loving everyone's ideas. I'll probably end up with variants of this list using near everything in this thread.

indigo_jones wrote:

The squad of trukk boyz is strange to me. It'll be running out way in front of your army since it goes at least twice as fast as everything else. 1 trukk = dead trukk and 12 dead boyz. Think about using these points elsewhere. You could make that mob about 20 strong if you drop the trukk, nothing to sneeze at. OR you could add big grot mobs or big gunz if you're feeling crazy.

Otherwise this is a solid kan wall list. Nothing fancy or bold, but it will certainly get the job done.

Indigo I got the trukk idea from you in another thread .

I suggested it because I played a kan wall variant in a tourney over the weekend and had issues getting to objectives. I think trukks in reserve that come in to swoop objectives late game would be useful in the otherwise lumbering kan wall list.

Trukk has no purpose in this list at all. The entire list is foot slogging and only has one unit which zooms ahead. The trukk will get wasted. Just get more boyz on foot.

mercer wrote:Trukk has no purpose in this list at all. The entire list is foot slogging and only has one unit which zooms ahead. The trukk will get wasted. Just get more boyz on foot.

Agreed. for those points you could also get a squad of 10 lootas.

P.S. I like this list, even though I play mechanised orks xD

mercer wrote:Trukk has no purpose in this list at all. The entire list is foot slogging and only has one unit which zooms ahead. The trukk will get wasted. Just get more boyz on foot.

Are you even reading my posts at all?

The trukk is for reserves only. Comes in late in the game behind the wave of green death and speeds to take/contest an objective. That's its only job, same as my grots suggestion, which are a lot cheaper but slower and weaker.

And to Sir Wat, I sorta like that imagery, too, of the grots picking up the scraps after the battle. Plus, it always seems awesome to win a game because of weedy, otherwise-useless grots scrambling into place on turn 5 or 6.

I like the Trukk idea, but I think I'm gonna run with the Grots, simply because I love the idea.
And (even if it might drop usefullness a bit), I think I'm gonna throw 3 Meks into both Loota squads, again just because I think it fits with the army.

So, the list now is.
HQ:
2 Big Meks, each with KFF, 3 Grot Oilers
Elite:
2 Squads of 30 Lootas, each with 3 Meks
Troops:
2 Dreads, each with an extra DCCW, Skorcha, Armour Plates, and Grot Riggers
2 30 man Boyz Mobs, each with 26 Shootas, 3 Big Shootas, Nob with PK and Boss Pole
2 19 man Gretchin squads, each with Runtherd and Grot Prod
Heavy Support:
3 Kans with Launchas
3 Kans with KMBs
3 Kans with Grotzookas (just because I like them, honestly)


I think this is what I'm going to ultimately stick with, but any ideas are still welcome for variants.
Thanks a ton to everyone that helped out.

Kevin Nash wrote:

mercer wrote:Trukk has no purpose in this list at all. The entire list is foot slogging and only has one unit which zooms ahead. The trukk will get wasted. Just get more boyz on foot.

Are you even reading my posts at all?

Yup, and one mech unit held in reserve doesn't suit the list. Just going to get blown up very very quickly. And with it being in reserve you don't know when its going to come on. Its nice saying you can get it to rush to claim that objective, but what about if it comes on too quickly and gets blown up? Bad times. What about if it comes in on turn 4 and the game carries on till turn 5 or even turn 7? The longer that trukk is on the board the easier it will be to blow it up and a trukk with 12 orks on a objective will not last long, unless out of sight. Most units sent to take them out will do what they're meant to very effectively.

mercer wrote:

Kevin Nash wrote:

mercer wrote:Trukk has no purpose in this list at all. The entire list is foot slogging and only has one unit which zooms ahead. The trukk will get wasted. Just get more boyz on foot.

Are you even reading my posts at all?

Yup, and one mech unit held in reserve doesn't suit the list.

This isn't a fashion show. The purpose of a scoring unit in reserve is to...score. That concept can suit any list.

Just going to get blown up very very quickly.

They are welcome to wreck my trukk if I can still score with the troop inside. Even if you ramshackle you aren't necessarily too far from an objective. Even with a LD test the unit has a good chance of holding with a nob and a BP. And if it gets wiped? Well then my opponent spent his time shooting that instead of the 30 man boy units.

And with it being in reserve you don't know when its going to come on.

For the purposes of late scoring it's at least coming on on turn 5. With an 18" move it has a decent chance of getting wherever it needs to go. If it shows up earlier you park it somewhere or counter assault for your lootas or something. You also don't have to reserve it every game, context is important. In a spearhead matchup it can just camp the corner until it's necessary. Heck in certain games it can score and then contest a second objective by moving the trukk over there.

Its nice saying you can get it to rush to claim that objective, but what about if it comes on too quickly and gets blown up? Bad times.

It's a 150 point boy unit. What if any of my units get blown up? That's bad too but it doesn't mean it's an auto-loss. The object of the game is only to "blow up" your opponent 33% of the time. The remaining games involve scoring objectives.

What about if it comes in on turn 4 and the game carries on till turn 5 or even turn 7? The longer that trukk is on the board the easier it will be to blow it up and a trukk with 12 orks on a objective will not last long, unless out of sight. Most units sent to take them out will do what they're meant to very effectively.

Again this isn't very specific you're just saying that all opponents are capable of killing vehicles which isn't false but also doesn't really contest the concept at all. It's a unit that is highly mobile, can score one objective and even contest another. At worst it's counter assault for lootas. If you use the unit correctly and keep it hidden or in reserve as long as possible your opponent often isn't going to have the option to actually shoot at it, and if they do they are foolishly skipping higher percentage shots against greater threats and that's a win/win anyway.

I don't usually advocate running trukk boyz in any lists, but Kan Wall is an extremely immobile list. It's slow and that creates a real challenge for large seize games especially against mobile mech opponents. I think a small 150-300 point investment is worth considering just for games like that.

The Issue of the trukk is kinda wrong, if you already have a green tide headed towars the enemy, I really highly doubt that the enemy player will take the time to shoot at the trukk, in all reality you shouldn't be stupid with the trukk either and throw it in best possible line of site of the enemy. If you have a wall of killa kans, and 60 boys that can unload 120 shots at you, I would believe that the trukk would be low priority, and the trukk has a very good chance at coming out turn three.

Post operation hey Kevin? The idea is good don't get me wrong but a single mech unit doesn't suit the list and for reasons mentioned you cannot relie on reserve roll for that trukk to come on when you want. If it comes in on turn 2 it will get popped and your plan of speeding ahead won't work.

You need multple fast units, like a eldar army. Taking just one just won't work and will probably only pay off in a handful of games. Taking a foot list has advantages and disadvantages, this is one of them but trying to get a 30 man ork unit off a objective isn't easy to do.

2 kmb come with the dread so you can take them from that kit

Responding to ...some poster from above