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Hello

Please imagine something like this


A--X--X--X--X--C--S--X--X--X--X--Z

where A, X and Z are terminators
C is a chaplain
S shrike
- is one inch


and now let us assume that one suqad of harlequins is assaulting terminator A, and because they are flanking them harlies can reach only A terminator. No other terminators react moving 6 inches to the harlies and everything seemd fine.

But suddenly, in the same turn, second squad of harlies assaults terminator Z, so the terimnators do not react on this because they can not.
Now my questions are:
-if , for example, i will inflict 5 unsaved wounds, how will the terminators be removed ???
-when the chaplain and shrike will get to CC, and to which harlies squad ???

Both squads of Harlequins have to assault at the same exact "time". Your Terminators, and attached ICs, would have to get in base contact with a Harlequin if at all possible. Casualties are removed as every other situation in the game.

In the situation pictured, both squads of Harlequins are moved into contact, and then the defenders would normally react.

In this case, as they are already stretched out at maximum coherency distance, none of the defenders can move. So the Harlequin squads would each attack their respective ends.

Assuming that 'A' and 'Z' are from the same unit as the 'X's, the wounds can be taken from anywhere in the Terminator unit.

Afterwards, assuming that neither side runs away from the combat, the Harlequins will pile in (they go first, as it is their turn). The Termies would then normally also pile in, but will be unable to do so and maintain coherency, so any that are still not in base to base will remain where they are.

So it would appear that the IC's would need to stand there for a further round of combat before the Harlequins will reach them with another pile in move.

Hmm... gonna hafta disagree.

The defenders' reaction follows the same rules as assaulting models moving.

The rationale being used by Insaniak is based on the last requirement of maintaining coherency with the squad-- but that is contingent on all other steps being impossible. So, as long as each member of the unit is moved into BTB, or into coherency with a unit in BTB that has already moved, it seems they can break coherency.

In the OP's example, the 4 Xs and C can go left and Shrike +4 could go right (or however one chooses).

p34 BRB

@kartofelkopf seems to be right after checking the rulebook i discovered that staying in coherency is the last priority for assaulting units thus making it legal to break coherency since getting into assault takes priority (i've said it before and i'll say it again YAY GW RAW!)

Almost.

You still have to maintain coherency, it isn't an option.

However, the rule is you must maintain coherency with a model that has already moved.
Now, for this to work at all, one has to assume that those in base contact count as having moved. (Or the entire React process does not work) Thus you can move the first terminator as long as it is n coherency with either A or Z; then move the next making sure it is in coherency with one of those three.

I thought if a unit was already locked in CC from the first Harliquen unit, it ca't be picked out again. Or is this only for shooting only I am confusing with, and 2 units can attack enemy unit?

Yes, yes you are. Not only that but a unit can assault multiple enemy units if you so desire.

HoverBoy wrote: Not only that but a unit can assault multiple enemy units if you so desire.

Only if it didn't fire correct? You can only assault a unit wich you fired apon and therefore cannot assault another unit.

When group of harlies 1 kills terminators, take the casualties from the terminators in combat w/ harlies 2, if enough die harlies 2 cant attack till next turn when pile ins have been done.

Davor wrote:

HoverBoy wrote: Not only that but a unit can assault multiple enemy units if you so desire.

Only if it didn't fire correct? You can only assault a unit wich you fired apon and therefore cannot assault another unit.

Incorrect. You can only Declare you are assaulting the unit you shot at, however you can still end up in combat with more than a single unit.

Davor wrote:

HoverBoy wrote: Not only that but a unit can assault multiple enemy units if you so desire.

Only if it didn't fire correct? You can only assault a unit wich you fired apon and therefore cannot assault another unit.

Well iv'e read a few batreps and it seems that people usually play it if 1 of the units you assault is the 1 you shot at its all good haven't thought about it maybe ill go make a thread on that.

Edit: Done http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/279631.page#1340199

Wouldn't there be a 6" reaction move for the defenders after each assault? So unit 1 assaults, they pile into unit 1. Unit 2 assaults the new melee.

Yeah but @MasterSlowPoke calimed to have the uncanny power (or maybe multiple sets of arms) that allow him to assault both units of harlies at once
See post 2.

Well that's correct as Defenders React is after all assault moves afaik.

Pika_power wrote:Wouldn't there be a 6" reaction move for the defenders after each assault? So unit 1 assaults, they pile into unit 1. Unit 2 assaults the new melee.

Defenders react is after ALL assaults are moved into base contact.

Pika_power wrote:Wouldn't there be a 6" reaction move for the defenders after each assault? So unit 1 assaults, they pile into unit 1. Unit 2 assaults the new melee.

Active Player makes all assault moves, then defending player makes reaction moves(staying in unit coherency).

TopC wrote:When group of harlies 1 kills terminators, take the casualties from the terminators in combat w/ harlies 2, if enough die harlies 2 cant attack till next turn when pile ins have been done.

This isn't true. If they were engaged at the beginning, they still get to attack.

kartofelkopf wrote:The rationale being used by Insaniak is based on the last requirement of maintaining coherency with the squad-- but that is contingent on all other steps being impossible.

I was about to argue this, based on the fact that maintaining coherency is also the first requirement of moving the assaulting unit... but it would appear that I was looking at it slightly wrong.

You have to maintain coherency with models that move. But nothing says that models that don't move as a part of the assault have to be kept in coherency. It simply says that models that move have to finish their movement in coherency with a model from the same unit that has already moved.

So technically you would be able to break coherency, to move all of the unengaged models into contact with either assaulting unit. As soon as the combat is over, the survivors will need to move back into coherency.

I think what had thrown me there is that unlike some previous editions, this edition doesn't include a statement that coherency doesn't have to be maintained in combat.

So just to confirm, you are allowed to move models out of coherency when making a Defenders React move?

Only so long as you follow the other rules for moving your unit.

Depending on how you read the RAW, you'd only be able to consolidate towards one of the assaulting units, as the requirement that you maintain coherency with a model that has already moved would come into effect after you've moved your first model... however, I imagine, as Insaniak pointed out, that the units already in BTB would count as having 'moved' already. Given that, I imagine it'd be okay to defender react towards both assaulting units.


Short answer: yes.

kartofelkopf wrote:however, I imagine, as Insaniak pointed out, that the units already in BTB would count as having 'moved' already.

That was actually coredump who mentioned that idea.

By RAW, I would agree that you would be stuck reacting to one unit or the other. But coredump's idea of treating btb models as 'already moved' works as a playable workaround.

Actually, very strict RAW gets even goofier.

The rules say you follow the assault movement rules. Those say you start with the closest to closest.
In the above example, A and Z are both the 'closest', so the rules get a small problem there.
But even if you pick one to be *the* closest, it never actually moves, so when you get to the next model to move, there is no 'moved model' to maintain coherency with.

But lets say you get passed that and rule that you can start moving the 'next closest' model, or somesuch, and then must maintain coherency with that model, as it has actually moved.

This now causes lots of issues with a more standard combat.

Lets look at the above example, and say the middle 6 models get assaulted.
To be consistent, you still have to pick the 'next closest' and assault, and *ALL OTHER* models must try and maintain coherency based off that model.
Which means, if you first move a model on the left side, the models on the right side must try and get around the combat, to reach coherency with the other moved models.

Somewhere I have a diagram helping to explain this....


Anyway, all of this weirdness goes away, if you treat all models in base contact as having already moved.

And you would have to move Shrike (IC) before all other models in this example.

This is also a contrived example that would never actually happen in a game, I'm not sure how much utility there is in discussing it.

Well....

I run horde orks, and usually do a 20-30 strong unit with cybork bodies and Mad Dok attached. I string that unit out across the front line, so it is not uncommon for the unit to be assaulted by multiple units. We've actually had this very same discussion before, although it was a little less extreme (multiple models at each end of the line were tagged, but my mob did end up splitting out of coherency for a round).

coredump wrote:But lets say you get passed that and rule that you can start moving the 'next closest' model, or somesuch, and then must maintain coherency with that model, as it has actually moved.

You don't have to move the 'next closest'... after the initial model, the rest are moved in whatever order you want.

Sorry, I was not clear with that term.

You are supposed to start moving with the 'closest' model.

the closest model can't move, because it is already in base contact.

One way to deal with this, is to start with the closest not-in-base-contact model. I shortened that concept to 'starting with the next closest'; which was a bit clumsy, and not as clear.

Right, gotcha.