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Friend of mine just started using an Airborne IG list and so there's was alot of re-reading of the rules to understand how this works. But the question is it says after pen and glances are figured out then you allocate. If all the, in this instance, Valkyries have the same wargear do you still allocate? If you don't hows that work? If you do can say, if you got 3 Valkyries, and they got two pens and two glances. Can you put the two Pens on one and one glance on the others?

Whole things freaking confusing with LOS, flying bases, and a ton of other crap to top it all off.

1. Glance/Pens are made

2. Look at the firing models compaired to the Squadron models, determine if the squadron is in cover or not.

3. Distribute the pens and glances via the wound allocation rules. From what I read there is no problem with 2 valks giving one 2 pens and the other 2 glances.

4. Roll you cover saves if you have them

5. Roll dmg chart, anything immobilize or above kiss the vehicle goodbye.

Agree with Blue Dagger

BlueDagger wrote:1. Glance/Pens are made

2. Look at the firing models compaired to the Squadron models, determine if the squadron is in cover or not.

3. Distribute the pens and glances via the wound allocation rules. From what I read there is no problem with 2 valks giving one 2 pens and the other 2 glances.

4. Roll you cover saves if you have them

5. Roll dmg chart, anything immobilize or above kiss the vehicle goodbye.

He had said there were 3 Valks so it should be 2 pens on one, 1 glance on each of the remaining 2

Kommissar Kel wrote:

BlueDagger wrote:1. Glance/Pens are made

2. Look at the firing models compaired to the Squadron models, determine if the squadron is in cover or not.

3. Distribute the pens and glances via the wound allocation rules. From what I read there is no problem with 2 valks giving one 2 pens and the other 2 glances.

4. Roll you cover saves if you have them

5. Roll dmg chart, anything immobilize or above kiss the vehicle goodbye.

He had said there were 3 Valks so it should be 2 pens on one, 1 glance on each of the remaining 2

Yes, but that would still be a correct allocation of damage results.

It's like if you take 2 plasma wounds and 2 bolter wounds on 3 Differently equipped Marines. One can take both plasma wounds while the other two get 1 bolter wound each.

Actually that only seems partially correct. If the models in a vehicle squadron are equipped identically (as the OP mentioned), you do not allocate to single models. The rulebook says (BRB 64) "the player allocates the hits as he would allocate wounds to members of a normal unit". Normal units, however, only use individual allocation if they are complex (i.e. differently equipped) unit.

Nitewolf wrote:Actually that only seems partially correct. If the models in a vehicle squadron are equipped identically (as the OP mentioned), you do not allocate to single models. The rulebook says (BRB 64) "the player allocates the hits as he would allocate wounds to members of a normal unit". Normal units, however, only use individual allocation if they are complex (i.e. differently equipped) unit.

So how do you resolve Identical Squadrons then? Every member is shaken if one result of Shaken is given?

Where are the Rules for the Airborne IG army?

IA volume 3. Also will be in IA volume 8.

No such thing, dingholio.

He could have said "Aircav" or "IG army dominated by Valkyries/Vendettas".

EDIT. Bugger me sideways! I didn't know an actual "Airborne IG" existed.
I guess that happen as I pretty much ignore IA.

Gwar! wrote:

Nitewolf wrote:Actually that only seems partially correct. If the models in a vehicle squadron are equipped identically (as the OP mentioned), you do not allocate to single models. The rulebook says (BRB 64) "the player allocates the hits as he would allocate wounds to members of a normal unit". Normal units, however, only use individual allocation if they are complex (i.e. differently equipped) unit.

So how do you resolve Identical Squadrons then? Every member is shaken if one result of Shaken is given?

No, one member is shaken (defender's choice), just like with normal units where, if one unsaved wound is suffered, one model of the unit loses a wound and not each model.

Well, every glancing or penetrating hit must be allocated to a specific vehicle before rolling for damage results. That´s the only way it makes sense.

So the defender basically has a modicum of damage control, since he get to choose what hits damages what vehicle. He cannot however choose what damage result will apply for what vehicle, since the hits have already been distributed.

Does it work the same way when in CC?

Warboss Tufgrim wrote:Well, every glancing or penetrating hit must be allocated to a specific vehicle before rolling for damage results. That´s the only way it makes sense.

Why is that the only way it makes sense? Example: Three model vehicle squad, 3 gh, 2 ph. You get crew shaken, crew shaken, crew stunned, immobilized and destroyed wrecked. Now you have three models that are shaken (since stunned becomes shaken) and two destroyed (since immobilized becomes wrecked). That means you remove two models of the three and the remaining one is shaken. Seems to make perfect sense to me.
The difference is you can't allocate both ph to the same model to minimize risks of losses when it's not a complex unit.

Once all penetration rolls have been made, the player controlling the the squadron allocates the glancing and penetrating hits to squadron members as he would allocate wounds to members of a normal unit.

Boyz, that is a rule quote. Means allocate your hits before they are rolled. 3 gl and 2 pens. Meaning yes, two pens would be placed on one vehicle, and the 3 glances on the other two. If as someone had just said you just roll the damage results, and then allocate, I can get really abusive that way on my squadrons.

The rule is quite clear on allocating wounds. It says allocate before what is suffering what. the key here is "Allocate the glancing and penetrating hits" If you do otherwise, I might destroy two of vehicles, and place all the damaging results on the same models that were destroyed. As in 2 shaken results, 1 weapon destroyed, 2 destroyed results. It doesnt make any sense to not allocate to each individual vehicle, whether they are slightly different or not. In these cases, i would keep one of my vendettas firing next round if we did it your way minus one twin linked lascannon if we followed your rules. It can get even more abusive if these were leman russ demolishers.

Allocate before rolling the damage tables, not after. in the above example, you would destroy one vehicle, destroy a weapon on one, and stop the last two from being able to shoot next round (extra amor).

I would think that in that case you could allocate one shaken to one vehicle, one shaken to another, and one immobilized to a third, you could then allocate one stunned to one of the shaken vehicles and destroyed to the immobilized one so only 1 vehicle would have to be removed? Can this be done since all the shots are fired at the same time, or do you have to immediately destroy the immobilized vehicle.

the part that makes is confusing is when they say you allocate just like you would in a unit. I've been playing that even tho they vehicles are identical you still allocate the glances and pens, then roll for cover saves if that vehicle gets on, then roll on the damage chart. Don't know if that exactly right but it's the only way that makes sense.

Another question popped up tho last night during a game. Does the squadron count as one kill point or three?

1KP, as it is one unit. That one is trivial.

General_Chaos wrote:the part that makes is confusing is when they say you allocate just like you would in a unit. I've been playing that even tho they vehicles are identical you still allocate the glances and pens, then roll for cover saves if that vehicle gets on, then roll on the damage chart. Don't know if that exactly right but it's the only way that makes sense.

My problem with that rule is that the sentence "allocate wounds as you would for normal units" makes little sense for vehicle squadrons with identical models, since for "normal" units you can only assign wounds to individual models if it is a complex unit and therefor not only identical models. Given that wounds allocation is very useful for the defender it should not be used unless being explicitly allowed. Of course you can argue that the rule on pg. 64 is supposed to do exactly that. I'm just saying that it is not as clear as a lot of people seem to think.

How do you decide whether the squadron is in cover or not.

a) 50% of the model like in the vehicles section
or
b) 50% of the squad like in the infantry section

phantommaster wrote:How do you decide whether the squadron is in cover or not.

a) 50% of the model like in the vehicles section
or
b) 50% of the squad like in the infantry section

Both.

Gwar! wrote:

phantommaster wrote:How do you decide whether the squadron is in cover or not.

a) 50% of the model like in the vehicles section
or
b) 50% of the squad like in the infantry section

Both.

/Agree

Both? Please explain

phantommaster wrote:Both? Please explain

If 50% of the unit is 50% obscured, the whole unit gets cover, regardless of LOS.

If not, then only the models 50% obscured will get the cover.

nosferatu1001 wrote:1KP, as it is one unit. That one is trivial.

Yah 3 AR10 open-topped warbuggies that I can see

I just find it hard give 3 Vendettas, that are AR12, armed with 3 TL lascannons each and being able to carry 12 models each only worth 1KP...

General_Chaos wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:1KP, as it is one unit. That one is trivial.

Yah 3 AR10 open-topped warbuggies that I can see

I just find it hard give 3 Vendettas, that are AR12, armed with 3 TL lascannons each and being able to carry 12 models each only worth 1KP...

Boo Hoo?

30 Boyz are worth 1 KP, the same way as a Trukk is worth 1 KP the same way as a LR is 1KP the same way as a Squadron of Leman Russ Exterminators who fire out 15 Plasma Cannons a turn...

Gwar! wrote:Boo Hoo?

F U?

the "one killpoint" for the unit is one of the benifits of squadroning up your vehicles.
downsides include, restricted movement, targetting, increased chances of destruction, cc vulnerability.

I find it balances out.

Yah 3 AR10 open-topped warbuggies that I can see

I just find it hard give 3 Vendettas, that are AR12, armed with 3 TL lascannons each and being able to carry 12 models each only worth 1KP...

This is why KPs suck hard. You're complaining that 3 Vendetta's counts as 1 KP but 1 Pirnaha counts as 2!!! Which is far worse if you ask me. But thems da rulz...

As for the wound allocation I don't really think nitewolfs suggestion works as damage table results aren't rearly very equivalent to wounds and the like. It just becomes a mess as to what happens unless you count the entire squadron as individuals for wound allocation. Your interpretatin might be the RAW but if you even start to try to implement it, it becomes unworkable and broken very quickly...

KPs dont suck hard, as they balance out the other two missions by giving a disadvantage to taking minmax troops allowance. VPs does not and cnanot balance out the other mission types, so you are left with creating another arbitrary system...or using killpoints. KP whiners never seem to realise this.

Yes, you only allocate "potential" damage (insofar as you dont know how bad the damage is) nothing then indicates you then take something which is not a wound and apply it around the like models.