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HQ
Captain Kayvaan Shrike - 195

TROOPS
Tactical Squad - 235
-5 additonal SM
-Meltagun
-Missile Launcher
-Power Fist
-Rhino

Tactical Squad - 235
-5 additonal SM
-Meltagun
-Missile Launcher
-Power Fist
-Rhino

Scout Squad - 165
-5 additonal SM
-9x Combat Blades
-Power Fist

FAST ATTACK
Assault Squad - 225
-5 additonal SM
-Flamer
-Power Fist

Assault Squad - 225
-5 additonal SM
-Flamer
-Power Fist

Land Speeder Squadron - 70
-Multi-melta
-Heavy Flamer

ELITES
Assault Terminator Squad - 400
-5 additional Terminators
-5x SS/TH
-5x LCs

TOTAL - 1750

Yet again my list has changed, just can't nail it down. The more research and reading I do the more I tweak and change it. I'll probably keep changing it until I get the very last model finished.

My goal with this army is to take advantage of Shrike's army wide "fleet" special rule. Have him infiltrate with the 10-man CC Terminators to be in my opponent's face early. I also want to get the Scout Squad in there as well. I plan on using the Rhinos with the Tactical Squad (10 -man full or 5-man combat squads) to move to objectives and screen the Assault Squads till they're in the position to leap frog and make an assault. The Land Speeder was chosen b/c I had extra points and it seems like it could do some damage with it's MM/HF combo, a flexible unit.

Please let me know what you think about the list and strategy I have planned out. I'll get this list down sooner or later. Thanks again.

I always try playing shrike with regular Assaults, mainly because of his jump pack, and apparently it never hit me to throw him in with Assault Terms... Fleet infiltrating assault terms with a mix of TH/SS and LC's? lolololol!!!

That made me gasp in awe when I first read that.

As far as your list goes, I like it. It lacks major Anti tank, be it Long Range or Fast moving. You LS will be a nice tank popper, but if it dies, you have no quick tank killers =(.

I would play this army any day. The Psychological warfare of you INFILTRATING TH/SS Terms will feth with your opponent.

Mixed weapons in the terms are there for combat squadding arent they?

Lone speeder will die in turn 1 and when dead huge chunk of your antitank dies with it. Despite lot of power fists taking vehicles down in CC is the orky way, not SM one.

Assault squads need second flamer.

Big CC scout unit is funny but can actually hurt.

Interesting list. Psychology is your biggest ally.

Rashim wrote:As far as your list goes, I like it. It lacks major Anti tank, be it Long Range or Fast moving. You LS will be a nice tank popper, but if it dies, you have no quick tank killers =(.

I do realize that's a weakness I have with this army list. So I'm wondering if I take out 5 Terminators I could use those extra points to solve this problem. Maybe a Vindicator or Predator (Annihilator)? Or even some more Land Speeders?

w0chtulka wrote:Mixed weapons in the terms are there for combat squadding arent they?

Nah it's really my cheap way to use 1 box of Assault Terminators to make 10 units. I'm going to take the extra 5 weapons and convert the AoBR Terminators to be another 5 Assault Terminators.

w0chtulka wrote:Big CC scout unit is funny but can actually hurt.

They help me stick to the fluff of the Raven Guard a bit more.

w0chtulka wrote:Interesting list. Psychology is your biggest ally.

Why thank you! I enjoy a bit of a mind game. It's is war after all, using psychology is just another weapon at my disposal.

Drop the extra 5 terms, and throw in a Predator Hybrid, Autocannon, and Las sponsons, and then another Land speeder of the same build.

You could even grab 2 LS, drop the scout squad, and get something else.

Personally, I'm thinking the Pred and Landspeeder, because the infiltrating scouts are sort of nasty in the build they have, and that is a nice scouring unit close to an objective if done correctly.

I say keep the scouts the way they are, the fact that they have 10 TH/SS Termies with shrike 18" away from them is going to override the fact that they also have 10 CC Scouts at the same range. I think you can rest assured that almost everything in your army will be ignored until that unit is destroyed because most people are like "OMFG!! 10 TT/SS TERMIES!!! I HAVE TO KILL THEM!!"

I've made some revisions to my list based off the suggestion/comments I've received. Let's see how this looks.

HQ
Captain Kayvaan Shrike - 195

TROOPS
Tactical Squad - 235
-5 additonal SM
-Meltagun
-Missile Launcher
-Power Fist
-Rhino

Tactical Squad - 235
-5 additonal SM
-Meltagun
-Missile Launcher
-Power Fist
-Rhino

Scout Squad - 165
-5 additonal SM
-9x Combat Blades
-Power Fist

FAST ATTACK
Assault Squad - 225
-5 additonal SM
-Flamer
-Power Fist

Assault Squad - 225
-5 additonal SM
-Flamer
-Power Fist

Land Speeder Squadron - 70
-Multi-melta
-Heavy Flamer

ELITES
Assault Terminator Squad - 200
-5x SS/TH

HEAVY SUPPORT
Predator - 85
-Heavy Bolter side sponsons

Vindicator - 115

TOTAL - 1750

The 2x Assault Squads and Scout Squad aren't going to be removed as it's what makes it a fluffy Raven Guard list to me. Jump Packs + Fleet seems like something I'm going to enjoy playing.

I've cut back the Assault Terminator Squad to a 5-man, boy that 10-man squad sounded scary. So with those extra points I've added a Dakka Predator to lay some fire down and a Vindicator to draw some of my enemy's fire.

What about that second flamer for assault squads?? Predator needs lassponsons to be effective antitank.

Hmm, I'd drop the scouts, but then the problem arises you only have two scoring units, which can be a problem in 5th ed. If you can figure it out, getting more Land Speeders will rip hordes or tanks to pieces in seconds.

Umm...gotta ask, what's with the predator? Lascannons or drop it for more Landspeeders IMO.

Like said already, more flamers for assault squad plox!

In a totally different matter, greetings brother! Raven Guard are awsome! For Corax!

Marines dont have problems with scoring units as they are not as fragile as other races units. He can combatsquad them. Besides enemy has to take care about 20 assault marines and some assault termies who will be in his face since T1 or T2.

Predator needs those lascannons. Since you have fast attack full with assault squads you lack ranged antitank so they are necessary.

Liked the termie/ASM theme.
The second build seems to have too many different things.
May I suggest:

Noxnoctis22 wrote:

HQ
Captain Kayvaan Shrike - 195

TROOPS
Tactical Squad - 235
-5 additonal SM
-Meltagun
-Missile Launcher
-Power Fist ( expensive and not neccassary )
-Rhino

Tactical Squad - 235
-5 additonal SM
-Meltagun
-Missile Launcher
-Power Fist ( expensive and not neccassary )
-Rhino

Scout Squad - 165 ( why not field a small squad of shooty scouts? CC should be the part of the termies/ASM )
-5 additonal SM
-9x Combat Blades
-Power Fist

FAST ATTACK
Assault Squad - 225 (I prefer TH, just a few points more )
-5 additonal SM
-Flamer
-Power Fist

Assault Squad - 225 (I prefer TH, just a few points more)
-5 additonal SM
-Flamer
-Power Fist

Land Speeder Squadron - 70
-Multi-melta
-Heavy Flamer

( good if 2 of them or maybe go for Typhoons, better at ranged fire and less likely to die. Problem is 3 FA choices lead to squadrons and squads suffer from the vehicle squadron rules a bit when hits spread across )

ELITES
Assault Terminator Squad - 200
-5x SS/TH

HEAVY SUPPORT
Predator - 85
-Heavy Bolter side sponsons

Vindicator - 115

( fire support vehicles aren't bad with transports, but again maybe in pairs? )

TOTAL - 1750

To sum it up, I would focus on 1x termie 2x ASM, 1x scout 2x tac, and 2 tanks ( predators or vindicators ).
You could free points in dropping some PF's, your Tacs specifically should not need to go HtH.
Mix of TH/SS and LC is fine, adds fast hits from LightningClaw's with slow but destructive power of the ThunderHammer
and still keeps the benefits of the Stormshields.
ASM could have 2 flamers but also may stay clear of beeing shot if they only nearly overwhelm their target.
Plus, a 2x ASM list wont allow many single LS, so Tanks are the choice of the day.
2x vindicators are approved to work.
As replacement of the "distraction" you intend the scouts to be, a reduced small scouts squad and saved points from TacPFists
would allow to add a single droppoding MM-dread.

=> Shrike, 2x 10 Tac in rhinos, 5 scouts, 5 termie, 1 dread in DPod, 2 vindicators.

Excuse me Mr. OP but i have a question for you.

Are you planning to run this in tournaments or small friendly games with people you know?

Also:

If you're going to take that pred, make he sponsons LAS B/C you need more anti-tank

Get rid of the vindicator, it will just become the focus of all of your enemy's AT fire and will asplode quite quickly.

If you insist on using Land speeders as your primary source of AT, use the points from the dropped vindicator to get another of the same type so you melta AV 14 transports reliably (1 multi melta shot is NOT a reliable AV 14 killer) and then fry those inside with 2 heavy flamer blasts. You should know though, that this squad will most likely die the next turn, so make it worth your while.

you should have around 10 points left over to BUY A 2nd FLAMER WITH..!!!! *cough cough*

and your other 10 points will come from replacing the scout sarge's PF with a PW. The reason you should do this is because scouts really aren't so durable that they can wait around for their sarge to swing is I1 PF attacks. If they're going CC then they should do as much damage as quickly as possible, especially against things that will be going at I2 or I3. Yes this does mean that you won't be able to kill MC's with this squad... but then again, you wouldn't have been able to anyways so it's pretty much all the same.

I would take the two assault squads and make them one squad with one power fist and two flamers.

Combat squad them into one powerfist sarge and 4 regulars, and 2 flamers with 3 regulars. I do that with my Gila Knights, it works great.

I developed a similar list however I had landraiders giving the CC terminators a 12(LR movement)+2(disembark)+6(fleet/run)+6(assault)= 26 inch threat range!

That is turn one charge with one of the top CC units in the game. They go after AV and Eiltes

I coupled that with CC scouts for cheap scoring units and Assault marines to clean up troops.

My heavy slot consisted of Whirlwinds for their indirect fire and horde killing ability coupled with typhoon ml/MM landspeeders.

I never did collect this list but think it would be fun as hell and really effective.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I just checked my Dex for points

1750 on the nose

Shrike

CC Termies
-Land Raider Redeemer
CC Termies
-Land Raider Redeemer

Scouts-
Scouts-
Scouts-

Assault Squad
Land Speeder
-Typhoon ML
Land Speeder
-Typhoon ML

Whirlwind
Whirlwind

Just as a general word of caution, you need to be careful with this list, especially since you have a lot of points invested in a single unit and tactic (and like, a hundred bucks).

It can actually be tough to get a turn one charge off of any Shrike + Terminators list.

If you're in line of sight of the enemy, you have to deploy 18" away. If you're out of line of sight, you get the better 12" deployment. Placement is going to be very, very important for both you and your opponent...especially a canny foe who might anticipate such a tactic and deliberately have units looking at/in hidey holes.

While we're on the subject of the 12" out of sight principle, it is very difficult to place 10 terminators and Shrike in a place that is out of sight to anyone. 10 40mm bases can cover a crap ton of ground and make it all the easier for enemy forces to 'spot' you and keep you from getting up far enough, and any piece of terrain big enough to hide behind can be problematic getting over/around/through to actually declare charges and fight the peoples.

Heck, I don't even know if it works at all in a Dawn of War deployment scenario.

Deleted by poster due to inaccuracies

Deuce11 wrote:Here is the same list with some added doodads to make 2000pts (i like the first list better but I think this have much needed fire power, troop protection, and extra AV cracking power

Shrike

CC Termies
-Land Raider Redeemer
-MM
CC Termies
-Landraider Redeemer
-MM

Scouts
-ML
-Razorback
Scouts
-ML
-Razorback
Scouts
-ML
-Cloaks

Assault Squad
-Thunder Hammer
-Flamer
-Combat Shield

Landspeeder
-Typhoon ML/MM
Landspeeder
-Typhoon ML/MM

Whirl Wind
Whirl Wind

Scouts may not take razorbacks.

nor should a Typhoon speeder take MM

1hadhq wrote:

Deuce11 wrote:Here is the same list with some added doodads to make 2000pts (i like the first list better but I think this have much needed fire power, troop protection, and extra AV cracking power

Scouts may not take razorbacks.

Ballz

Shrike78 wrote:Excuse me Mr. OP but i have a question for you.

Are you planning to run this in tournaments or small friendly games with people you know?

Small friendly games with people I know and one unfriendly game against my buddy who plays SW. He beat me pretty good last week in a small 1250 battle. Grrrr...

Shrike78 wrote:Get rid of the vindicator, it will just become the focus of all of your enemy's AT fire and will asplode quite quickly.

In a way that's kinda the point. Of course I want the Vindicator to do some damage but I also feel that I need something on the table that will draw my enemy's fire and allow my assault units to do their thing. The Vindicator seems like a good choice for this.

So it seems like the overwhelming opinions are to take a Predator w/Autocannon & Lasponsons and add a second flamer to my Assault Squads.

I guess I should make it pretty clear that the "core" of my army will remain set as is. Shrike, 2x Tactical Squads, 1 Scout Squad and 2x Assault Squads. Yes the wargear can be changed for each group but those 51 units are staying for sure.

To OP. I completely apologize if I am taking over your thread but I think I made a NASTY 2000pt list that is actually legal and taking advantage of some tricksies

Shrike
-Dual Rending Lightning Claws
-Jump Pack
(Entire army gets ‘Fleet’; attached unit also get ‘Infiltrate’)
(Attaches to Assault Squad)

CC Termies (5x)
-LR Redeemer
--MM
CC Termies (5x)
-LR Redeemer
--MM

Scouts (5x) (only one cloak is needed to confer 'stealth' to unit. 'Stealth' is lost when the unit loses all members with cloak. Each sqaud has two cloaks)
-Telion (comes with cloak)
-Camo Cloaks(x1)
-Heavy
Scouts (5x)
-Camo Cloaks(x2)
-Heavy
Scouts (5x)
-Camo Cloaks(x2)
-Heavy
Scouts (5x)
-Camo Cloaks(x2)
-Heavy

Assault Squad (5x)
-Power Fist

Land Speeder (i am a little unsure about these. Thinking there are some pts wasted. The MM are simply back up but for 10pts/MM its worth it, IMO)
-Typhoon ML/MM
Land Speeder
-Typhoon ML/MM

Whirl Wind
Whirl Wind
----------------------------------
Total 2001

I have quadruple checked my math so it should be correct.

Deuce11 wrote:To OP. I completely apologize if I am taking over your thread but I think I made a NASTY 2000pt list that is actually legal and taking advantage of some tricksies.

Yeah you pretty seem to being trying to hi-jack this thread with your own list. So I suggest that you start you own post so people can comment on your list and mine separately to avoid confusion.

You can't give only part of a unit cloaks, as the codex says (the squad may be given...). Its all or none. While I agree that Telion should be able to confer Stealth to the unit he is in, I believe the INAT FAQ ruled that he does not. Might want to double check, but if that's the case and the INAT FAQ is relevant to your play, then Telion would not give stealth to his unit.

edit: spelling

Noxnoctis22 wrote:

Deuce11 wrote:To OP. I completely apologize if I am taking over your thread but I think I made a NASTY 2000pt list that is actually legal and taking advantage of some tricksies.

Yeah you pretty seem to being trying to hi-jack this thread with your own list. So I suggest that you start you own post so people can comment on your list and mine separately to avoid confusion.

Not my intention. Since the lists are similar in premise I think it is appropriate. Feel free to take my list as my C&C on yours.

Dracos wrote:You can't give only part of a unit cloaks, as the codex says (the squad may be given...). Its all or none. While I agree that Telion should be able to confer Stealth to the unit he is in, I believe the INAT FAQ ruled that he does not. Might want to double check, but if that's the case and the INAT FAQ is relevant to your play, then Telion would not give stealth to his unit.

edit: spelling

INAT FAQs are not rules and not relevant to my play because I don't enter tourneys. I do see the language you are referring to in the dex. I looked up threads on the matter in the "You Make Da Call" forum. The pre-INAT FAQ consensus was pretty clear and is where I got the idea for only giving part of the squad cloaks. I agree its rules lawyering to a degree.

If you ain't cheatin' you ain't trying!

Alright, so if your set on those units specifcally.(I assume because you have them purchased?)

HQ
Captain Kayvaan Shrike - 195

Has to stay, for obvious reasons!

TROOPS
Tactical Squad - 235
-5 additonal SM
-Meltagun
-Missile Launcher
-Power Fist
-Rhino

Tactical Squad - 235
-5 additonal SM
-Meltagun
-Missile Launcher
-Power Fist
-Rhino

Perhaps consider dropping the PFist, these guys REALLY need to avoid CC, unless your tieing up shooty units that can't CC.

Scout Squad - 165
-5 additonal SM
-9x Combat Blades
-Power Fist

Since your adamant on these units, keep em.

FAST ATTACK
Assault Squad - 225
-5 additonal SM
-Flamer
-Power Fist

Assault Squad - 225
-5 additonal SM
-Flamer
-Power Fist

2 Flamers Per Unit!

Land Speeder Squadron - 70
-Multi-melta
-Heavy Flamer

Get more or go home. These things need redundancy or are going to be smashed!

ELITES
Assault Terminator Squad - 200
-5x SS/TH

I'd go with 3 TH/SS and 2 LCs, but that's jut me, especially because LCs are fluffy!

HEAVY SUPPORT
Predator - 85
-Heavy Bolter side sponsons

Vindicator - 115

These are very...weird too me. They seem very out of place. Drop em. I'd recomend either getting more land speeders, or totally dropping the speeders and grabbing an LR to transport around your Termis, incase they get strung out(or DoW) and it'll draw fire away from your other units, same as your Vindi, but will last longer and do more, IMO.

TOTAL - 1750

Disclaimer: I do not claim to be a master of the Space Marines, but I offer my advice non the less, in case it helps. Good luck!

Scouts need to drop the PF and go to PW.

The vindicator is unnecessary, grab a LS squardon with 2 LAS, one Typhoon, one HF/MM. Will let you place the wounds w/e you like them.

You can also drop the Pred for another LS, and grab 2 HF/MM and one Typhoon LS.



Shrike army's need to hit hard, and hit FAST. If you are going to be infilitrating both the Scouts and shrike/Terms, you will want to be able to get to a supporting range of Shrike quickly. With the smaller term squad, you should be able to find a nook to hide in and get within 12 inches. 10 temrs + shrike would be a LOT of models to hide, and with an 18 inch infiltrate, you will have to roll a 6 on the run.

REVISED LIST

HQ
Captain Kayvaan Shrike - 195

TROOPS
Tactical Squad - 235
-5 additonal SM
-Meltagun
-Missile Launcher
-Power Fist
-Rhino

Tactical Squad - 235
-5 additonal SM
-Meltagun
-Missile Launcher
-Power Fist
-Rhino

(I could also change the setup for each Tactical Squad to a Power Weapon, Meltabombs and Razorback for the same price.)

Scout Squad - 155
-5 additonal SM
-9x Combat Blades
-Power Weapon

FAST ATTACK
Assault Squad - 235
-5 additonal SM
-2x Flamer
-Power Fist

Assault Squad - 235
-5 additonal SM
-2x Flamer
-Power Fist

Land Speeder Squadron - 140
-2x Multi-melta
-2x Heavy Flamer

ELITES
Assault Terminator Squad - 200
-5x SS/TH

HEAVY SUPPORT
Predator - 120
-Lascannon side sponsons

TOTAL - 1750

I'm pretty happy with this. Just need to get the Terminators, Land Speeders and the Predator.

I like it as well. It has some weaknesses, but @ this point, it is a pretty list.

Play test it when you can, and get back to us. I sort of want to see how this works out =D!