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2000 point army:

HQ

Belial, standard loadout
Interrogator-Chaplain in Terminator Armor

Troops

Tactical Squad, 10 models, with a missile launcher

Deathwing (as troops with Belial as an HQ) Squad 1: One with an Assault Cannon

Deathwing Squad 2: 3 pairs of lightning claws, two with Thunder hammer/storm shield

Elites

Dreadnought with Twinlinked Lascannon and Missile Launcher

Fast Attack

Ravenwing Attack Squad of 3 bikes, one with a Meltagun and one with a Plasma gun. Also an Attack Bike with multimelta

Support Squad (Land Speeders), three Land Speeders, all with multimeltas, and one with a typhoon launcher and one with an assault cannon

Heavy Support

Land raider Crusader (In which the Assault Terminators and Interrogator Chaplain (And Belial???) will run)

Two vindicators, standard loadout.


So, should I run Belial with the assault terminators and Int. Chaplain? Or keep him with the other terminator squad (which will likely deep strike/deathwing assault)? Also, what can I do with my tac squad to make it more effective and/or less of a waste of points other than just capturing objectives?

Any thoughts at all?

So you're running Belial with the Storm Bolter/MC Power Sword? IMO, I think he's better served with a pair of Lightning Claws. And give that Terminator Assault Squad a Banner, courtesy of Belial (so everyone gets +1 attack), and pop Belial in with the Chaplain and Assault Termies. Admittedly, yes, it is a huge case of "eggs in one basket", however, it is an absolutely devastating unit that will rip and tear it's way through most everything your opponent throws at you. (however, I would advise against throwing them at GK Termies or Codex Marines hammertime termies...frakking 3+ invuls...).

I personally run the squad like this:
Belial (LC/LC)
Chappie (TDA)
Squad:
Sergeant (LC/LC/Banner)
Heavy Flamer/Chainfist
x2 TH/SS
LC/LC
->L. Raider Crusader.

This squad has served me well, butchering squads of normal Grey Knights, Wraithguard, and others. Just don't- DON'T- throw them at things like Wraithlords, Grey Knight Termies, or normal Hammer/Shield Termies.

My Belial model unfortunately has the power sword/storm bolter kit on him already, and I doubt I could do the lit claws and still be WYSIWYG. What I COULD do is say my belial model is the sergeant of the assault squad (he has a banner on his back) and he has the banner, and what I was using as my assault sergeant (who has the lit claws) would then be Belial... So that would get me one more lit-claw attack (On belial) and a standard bearer. I like the idea of the Belial banner, but from where on my list would you pull the necessary points? I could drop the missile launcher from my tac squad and that would get me partway, but make the tac squad that much less impressive...

Or I can pull out one of the land speeders (the one without an additional weapon?) and then give my tac squad a flamer and plasma cannon instead of the missile launcher, in addition to giving the assault termies the Deathwing banner. I'd still have about 30 points to spare if that were the case... Any thoughts on what to do with those?

Alternatively, I could leave the speeder squadron at full strength and pull the attack bike with multimelta, and add the banner along with changing out the tac squad as above, leaving me with enough points to... put extra armor on the land raider crusader? It seems almost like a waste with the Machine Spirit bonus, but what else should I do with those few points?

Thanks for the suggestions!

Get the tactical squad a Rhino, you need another 5 points though. But a transport is useful, also it can be used to distract AP2 or AP1 fire from your Termies =D

Oshova

I could give the tac squad just a flamer and a missile launcher, or just a plasma cannon, which would give me enough points for a rhino... and then put one of the combat-squaded ones in there to run for cover...

I think maybe the flamer/missile launcher combo, plus rhino, then combat squaded to split up the flamer and missile launcher (so I could keep one back to shoot and have the other get messy if need be) could work... Is all that worth losing a speeder over? Maybe...

Thoughts? I like these suggestions, keep 'em coming!

IMO, drop the AC/Missile Launcher speeder. That's a meh choice for Speeder kit. MM/HF speeders, in my experience, are surprisingly effective. Nobody's going to direct fire at them when they can be shooting other targets, and you can always sneak them up and nuke an enemy Raider/MC/high priority target before your enemy has time to go "lolwut?". Giving the tac squad a P. Cannon is a nice choice, and then a Rhino.

Combat squadding the Flamer/ML squad is essential; you either run closer to get within flamer range, or hold back to go missile sniping. So they have to be split.

I think I might draw some inspiration from this list; I run a pure Deathwing list, but have been trying to intergrate normal Greenwing elements.

But the assault Termie squad will hit hard, especially with that banner. Think about it; LC termies get 4 Attacks on the Charge, plus one for the Banner. Add the Chappie into the mix, and that's 26 power weapon attacks (21 who get rerolls to wound), all of whom reroll to hit. And then you still have 6 STR 8 hits with rerolls to hit...yeah. Whatever you hit will most probably die.

Personally, I don't like TH/SS as a loadout. It feels like you are dropping your ranged capabilities for benefits you will only see sometimes. Go LC if you want to be pure CC, or just stay with the regular loadout.

I usually just go with a 5-man tac squad that just flamers out of the rhino. Flamer, meltagun, or plasma gun, whichever you want. It's sort of a drive-by unit that doubles as an objective grabber. It's good to have units that can rush objectives late in the game. Then you will have two units w/ transports rushing objectives, and you can DS wherever with the other termi unit.

thechosen1 wrote:IMO, drop the AC/Missile Launcher speeder. That's a meh choice for Speeder kit.

So if I dropped that one, and made the changes I mentioned above, I'd have another 30 or so points leftover (thats even WITH the rhino)... thoughts on what to do with those???

And yes, I'm starting to regret not just taking all LC guys instead of the SS/TH combos... but what can ya do .

Thanks!

Wait, you still have 30 points left?

Well, you could make that Rhino a Razorback. Or throw Heavy Flamers on those Land Speeders.

And IMO, TH/SS isn't completely useless. You could engage something like Tyranid Warriors with the LC's, and then most certainly splat them with the thunder hammers. Or engage vehicles if the opportunity presents itself (since Deathwing lists have so few units, I'm used to kitting them out for multiple roles; hence why I took a chainfist in my incarnation of this Belial CC squad of doom).

If I took the deathwing banner, plus the flamer/missile launcher combo, plus rhino, and dropped the AC/MM speeder for the points, I'd have 30-40 pts left over. If I made the rhino into a razorback, I could give it extra armor, and still have a few points left over. Or should I give extra armor to the LRC? Or a power sword to the Ravenwing Sgt? Or to the Tac squad Sgt who will run with the flamer???

Just trying to think of things I could do with my models and stay WYSIWYG.

Thanks all, I love the brainstorming here!

IMO, you should give the power sword to the Tac Sergeant, put him with the flamer in the Razorback, and have them go engaging targets of opportunity (see that IG Veteran squad camping in cover and hurling autocannon shots your way? Go send the Razorback at them; the Termies have bigger things to bust).

Giving Extra Armor to Raiders in the DA Codex isn't the best option, as the old PotMS allows you to move, although it's only forward in a straight line.

Ok, so if my math is correct...

I can drop the AC/MM Land Speeder, and with those points add...

-Deathwing Banner for Assault Termies

-Flamer for a marine and Power Weapon for Tac Sergeant in Combat Squad 1

-Razorback for Combat Squad 1

-Upgrade the Missile Launcher marine to a Plasma Cannon marine in Combat Squad 2.

And that should come out even. Sound like a plan?

I'm missing an Apothecary in the DW fraction.
I'd outfit all DW Termies in one squad differently, thanks to the rule of wound allocation.

The apothecary for DA is meh, seeing as he doesn't grant FNP. He's the old "take 1 wound away"; yes, that's pretty nice, but seeing as it's Deathwing (who will most likely save on 2+), and who can't use the Apothecary against plasma/melta/power weapons, it's 30 points wasted, IMO.

thechosen1 wrote:The apothecary for DA is meh, seeing as he doesn't grant FNP. He's the old "take 1 wound away"; yes, that's pretty nice, but seeing as it's Deathwing (who will most likely save on 2+), and who can't use the Apothecary against plasma/melta/power weapons, it's 30 points wasted, IMO.

The DA apothecary is actually quite helpful, unlike FNP it actually protects against AP1/2. Melta will hurt as it causes ID, and it doesn't work in CC. I had a muck-around list at 1750 pts with 4 apothecaries in it, with a wall of terminators I was able to pretty much walk them up the entire table without taking a wound lol.

Well you can't have 4 apothecaries, as on one DW squad can be upgraded to a command squad. =]

Oshova

Sorry I didn't fully explain it. I was running a doublewing list with Belial and Sammael =P So one in the DW and RW command squads, plus you can buy an addition PA command squad for each IC that you have, and these can hold additional apothecaries. I just rechecked the codex and found that Sammy on jetbike != IC so I made a whoopsie there =P

Sorry to the OP for thread hijacking! You could perhaps lose the speeders and the Crusader, switch the CC DW squad to shooty, and buy another Vindicator and another shooty DW squad? If you can get your bikes up close you can drop in 2 DW squads first turn to apply pressure and clean up with the Vindys? I've generally found that a lone LR is melta-bait and won't last past turn 2-3ish.