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So this is the first year I am thinking about trying ard boys but at the same time I have never really made an army list over 1500 points that would be used competitively and to be honest I have been using he same 1500 for a while so that I could get really good with it so allot of the units that I don't use I might not be too good with. Well anyway here we go. So I am making this with what I have but I am willing to pick up some stuff so any suggestions or comments would be great.

HQ:

Space Marine Captain, Artificer Armour, Relic Blade 145 pts

Elite:

Dreadnought 105 pts

5 Terminator Assault Squad 3 Lightning claws, 2 Thunder hammers 200 pts
Land Raider Redeemer 240 pts

Venerable Dreadnought, Assault Cannon, Missile Launcher 185 pts

Troops:

10 Tactical Squad Plasmagun; Heavy Bolter
Sergeant Power Fist
Rhino 235 pts

10 Tactical Squad Meltagun; Missile Launcher
Sergeant, Power Fist
Razorback 240 pts

10 Tactical Squad Meltagun; Missile Launcher
Sergeant Power Fist
Rhino 235 pts

5 Scout Squad Camo Cloaks, Sniper rifles, Missile Launcher 100 pts

Fast Attack:

2 Land Speeder Squadron HVY Bolter X2, Assault Cannon x2 180 pts

2 Land Speeder Squadron Heavy Bolter x2; Typhoon Missile Launcher x2 180 pts

Heavy Support:

Land Raider 250 pts

Vindicator 115 pts

Predator 85 pts

Ok so after a few peoples recommendations I have changed the list around to what I think is a little better so what do people think.

HQ:

Space Marine Librarian, Terminator Armour; Storm Shield; Null Zone; Smite(not too sure about what to take for secondary power either this or one of the close combat ones)

Elite:

Dreadnought, Heavy Flamer; Assault Cannon

Dreadnought, Heavy Flamer; Assault Cannon

5 Terminator Assault Squad, Lightning Claws x3; Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield x2
Land Raider Redeemer, Extra Armor; Multi-Melta

Troops:

10 Tactical Squad, Meltagun; Heavy Bolter; Razorback(TL-HVY Bolter)
Sergeant, Power Fist - The idea here is to split them up and put half in the Land raider.

10 Tactical Squad, Meltagun; Missile Launcher; Rhino
Sergeant, Power Fist

10 Tactical Squad, Meltagun; Missile Launcher; Rhino
Sergeant, Power Fist

5 Scout Squad, Camo Cloaks; Sniper Rifle x4; Missile Launcher

Fast Attack:

2 Land Speeder Squadron, Heavy Bolter x2; Typhoon Missile Launcher x2

2 Land Speeder Squadron, Heavy Bolter x2; Typhoon Missile Launcher x2

Heavy Support:

Land Raider, Extra Armor; Multi-Melta

Vindicator

Predator, Autocannon; Heavy Bolter

I would drop the scout squad and find the points for another tactical rhino set it. Its just that at this point total you really need at least four units. That and marines in power armour hold out a lot better vs camo cloaks scouts...

Dreadnoughts need drop pods or else they're not getting any where.

heavy bolters are meh. I'd get a missile launcher so you can deal with hordes, vehicles and monstrous creatures.

Scouts are a bit meh and even more meh with a BS3 missile launcher. You've got enough troops do I'd drop these.

Change those speeders to 3 x with multi meltas and heavy flamers. Now you can bust tanks and infantry.

Try and take land raiders in pairs, you have the points for it so bulk up with a second terminator squad. Then take two vindicators if you have the points.

Remember when your building a list for Ard Boyz you have to take into consideration extremes. Can the army list you have up kill 20 THSS Termies? 4 Landraiders? 15 AV12-14 Vehicles? 8-9 T6 W4-6 MC's? Remember Ard Boyz is where people get the extra points to go a little crazy so you need to take those things into consideration. To be honest I don't see your army being able to do most of the above things. You might be ok for round 1 if you get good match ups and are a good player but round 2 won't go so well for you. Just some thoughts.

Ok well sounds like people dont really like my list that much so I made allot of changes to get something with redundancy and synergy that I think works out fairly well even though I have to actually buy a fair amount of things for this list but I think it looks good. You guys will have to tell me what you think of it.

HQ:
Space Marine Librarian,(Terminator Armour; Storm Shield; Null Zone; Vortex of Doom)

Forgefather Vulkan He'stan

Elite:
5 Terminator Assault Squad (Lightning Claws x3; Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield x2)
- Land Raider Redeemer (Extra Armor; Multi-Melta)

5 Terminator Assault Squad (Lightning Claws x2; Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield x3)

Troops:

10 Tactical Squad ( Meltagun; Multi-Melta; Razorback)
- Razorback (Extra Armor; Twin Linked Heavy Bolter)

10 Tactical Squad (Meltagun; Missile Launcher)
- Rhino (Extra Armor)

10 Tactical Squad (Meltagun; Missile Launcher)
- Rhino (Extra Armor)

Fast Attack:

Land Speeder (Heavy Flamer; Multi-Melta)

Land Speeder (Heavy Flamer; Multi-Melta)

2 Land Speeders (Heavy Bolter x2; Typhoon Missile Launcher x2)

Heavy Support:

Vindicator

Vindicator

Land Raider Crusader (Extra Armor; Multi-Melta)

I would swap those land raiders for godhammer patterns so you've got long range anti tank from the go.

Razorback isn't suited with multi melta because you cannot fire the hatch. Also why extra armour? In fact you don't need it on any tanks and I think your just using spare points.

Don't put land speeders in squadrons, they really don't last long. Perhaps make a nice attack bike squad with multi meltas instead?

First of all God hammers would NOT fit this army list, Secondly Multi-melta is a heavy weapon so if a vehicle moves it cannot be fired, third The extra armor is because if I get it I want to be able to move the tanks at all times so they are not auto hit in CC, 4th I only have 3 slots for fast attack and 4 land speeders so cant have them all apart and having 2 together isn't that bad.

Why wouldn't godhammers fit the army for? You have 4 long range weapons in the form of missile launchers. Those extra 4 lascannons would sure help. The multi meltas and meltas don't do there true job until 12" and 6" range. Surely you'd want something which has longer range?

Vehicles can move and fire heavy weapons, check the rule book

Razorbacks are armour 11 nothing will be assaulting them because they'd be blown up in shooting! You want to invest as less points as possible.

Everyone has 3 fast attack slots, and squadrons makes things weaker. Do you want the armour 10 flying thing to be weaker, really?

dude page 66 of your rulebook vehicle fire points, a model firing from a vehicles counts as moving if the vehicle has moved, a dude with a heavy weapon therefor cannot fire from a fire point if the vehicle has moved which is why it doesn't mater what tank the multi-melta is in unless the vehicle doesn't move. Godhammers don't fit cuz then I really don't have anti-horde things in the army and at that point I have too many things that die way to easily at close range and no support for them and I will have to wait for the enemy to come to me basically and God-hammers with Assault termies inside are not really doing what they should be doing. As far as the squadrons go the only really bad thing is that immobilized counts as destroyed otherwise the stunned counting as shaken is pretty nice, that and I dont really plan on splitting their attacks and I have 4 speeders so unless I remove one I cannot have them all running around by themselves.

Lightdrow wrote:Ok well sounds like people dont really like my list that much so I made allot of changes to get something with redundancy and synergy that I think works out fairly well even though I have to actually buy a fair amount of things for this list but I think it looks good. You guys will have to tell me what you think of it.

HQ:
Space Marine Librarian,(Terminator Armour; Storm Shield; Null Zone; Vortex of Doom)

Forgefather Vulkan He'stan

Elite:
5 Terminator Assault Squad (Lightning Claws x3; Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield x2)
- Land Raider Redeemer (Extra Armor; Multi-Melta)

5 Terminator Assault Squad (Lightning Claws x2; Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield x3)

Troops:

10 Tactical Squad ( Meltagun; Multi-Melta; Razorback)
- Razorback (Extra Armor; Twin Linked Heavy Bolter)

10 Tactical Squad (Meltagun; Missile Launcher)
- Rhino (Extra Armor)

10 Tactical Squad (Meltagun; Missile Launcher)
- Rhino (Extra Armor)

Fast Attack:

Land Speeder (Heavy Flamer; Multi-Melta)

Land Speeder (Heavy Flamer; Multi-Melta)

2 Land Speeders (Heavy Bolter x2; Typhoon Missile Launcher x2)

Heavy Support:

Vindicator

Vindicator

Land Raider Crusader (Extra Armor; Multi-Melta)

This list looks much better than the previous list, but I'd like to offer a few suggestions on where you might be able to improve it a bit more.

HQ- You have a solid pair going on here, the only thing I would question is the Librarian's choice of powers. Null Zone is fantastic, great choice. Vortex of Doom not so much. First off I'm assuming you're going to put him with the terminator assault squads, which means it can be a costly power because of 2 factors. Number 1 fail the psychic test and that could be vaporizing lots of Termies, possibly including the Librarian. Not a good chance, but it can happen. Number 2 is the 12 inch range. Because it's a large blast template the chances of scattering back on your unit are decent. I would suggest either Gate of infinity because of the chance to contest an objective late game, or Avenger since it offers an anti-marine flamer.

Elites- With you bringing Vulkan the terminators are a good choice, but the armaments should be a bit different. When you bring Vulkan to the party those Thunderhammers are worth their weight in gold. Either go 5 hammers or 4 hammers and a LC if you want to strike simultaneously with Init 4 opponents.

Troops- A good selection (Not much choice here) but I'd give one squad a flamer simply because sometimes you may need to root an opponent out of cover to take over their objective. Having at least one squad that can do this is very useful, but I would suggest having 2 to do it. Also, drop the missiles since Vulkan is coming to the party and go with the MM in the Tac squads instead of the missiles. Only other suggestion is dropping the extra armor on the Rhinos, save yourself 30 points (45 if you take it off the Razorback) since all it does is keeps you moving. Once you deliver your payload of Marines in their face the flamers are far more scary than a stormbolter armed cardboard box.

Fast Attack- The Typhoons at first glance seem a bit out of character, but they give you some much needed anti-horde firepower while maintaining mobility and distance. Personally I love them, they offer a tank hunting anti-infantry unit that stays at range instead of getting close like the Tornados. You're set up good in this department.

Heavy Support- In a Vulkan list 2 Landraiders is a good one two punch, but I'd fear those vindicators. Strength 10 AP 2 shots makes Assault Termies quake, even if they have Storm Shields. Not to mention the LRC and LRR will be closing in, and if you again get a bad scatter roll this could hamper you since it's STR 10 and rolls 2D6 chosing the highest for penetrating armor. With the amount of melta you have going in the army you don't need it for tank busting or termy busting. When on the field you typically will be firing them in support of a Terminator squad, and when it scatters badly you'll be kicking yourself. I think you would be better off taking a pair of Dakka preds and saving 30 points a piece then taking the free points and adding another land speeder Tornado with the Melta/Heavy Flamer.

Those are my suggestions as always YMMV so take it with a grain of salt.

Those speeders are better with the Tornadoes together, and your Typhoons separate.

The penalty for moving flat out is the same for being in a squadron, so you really only get the benefit for moving flat out. The Tornadoes are much more likely to be moving flat out to get in position while the Typhoons sit in the back and move 6-12" and shoot.

Also, the bonus of being able to allocate hits in the unit which will receive more shots is crucial. I find the fact that the Tornadoes have to get close means they are the ones taking more volume of shots.

Lightdrow wrote:dude page 66 of your rulebook vehicle fire points, a model firing from a vehicles counts as moving if the vehicle has moved, a dude with a heavy weapon therefor cannot fire from a fire point if the vehicle has moved which is why it doesn't mater what tank the multi-melta is in unless the vehicle doesn't move. Godhammers don't fit cuz then I really don't have anti-horde things in the army and at that point I have too many things that die way to easily at close range and no support for them and I will have to wait for the enemy to come to me basically and God-hammers with Assault termies inside are not really doing what they should be doing. As far as the squadrons go the only really bad thing is that immobilized counts as destroyed otherwise the stunned counting as shaken is pretty nice, that and I dont really plan on splitting their attacks and I have 4 speeders so unless I remove one I cannot have them all running around by themselves.

You didn't word it as that. It sounded like a VEHICLE cannot fire a heavy weapon when moving, you should have said a SQUAD cannot fire out the hatch of a vehicle. And yes, I obivously do know that. But that just proves my point because your taking multi meltas either in razorback which has no firing points to fire out, or you going to foot slog them, which is a bad idea. So can you please explain exactly what you're doing with those multi meltas in the tactical squads. And if you plan to get our the razorback you will get shot to gak the next turn, so taking missile launchers you're away from the fire, or take rhinos so you can actually shoot out the hatch.

Power of the machine spirit allows you to move and shoot . Remember, to use both the redeemer and crusader affectively against hordes it either puts you in melta range or in range against close combat i.e power fists/claws and monstrous creatures.

Yeah, that's kinda my point about speeders in squadrons...