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what do you dudes think about checkerboarding your squads in order to confer a cover save,

for example: an Ork player has 5 squads of 20 Boyz. Is it cool if that player blends them all into a big 100 model blob just to get cover saves?

how do you know what models belong to what squad? how do you know what to charge in the assault phase or if your opponent tries to decieve you by what he declares as a charge reaction?

is this craziness? what do you think?

The Ork player would have to have some method of delineating the different units. Anything less would be cheating.

Also, most games (around here, at least) don't let Meshing work in the first place. It's also forbidden by the INAT FAQ.

awesome! that's what I like to hear!

Yup, most players consider it a dodgy tactic. Technically legal, but just not done.

Of course, you run into all sorts of problems with it as well, particularly with movement if the units wind up closely packed, since you can't move through other models, and movement is one unit at a time.

So far as telling the units apart goes, that's no different to the rest of the game. Units should always have some sort of feature to mark which one's which.

yah, i would think so...for example: you better have your bases painted different colors if you really want to try and depend on this sort of tactic.

I would recommend against it strongly. Firstly, it's controversial in many areas. Secondly, it leaves you way open for blasts. Thirdly, it's easier to just get a Grot screen/Kan Wall.

Would you guys considering something like.... taking a guardsman blob and then having your CCS inside them (but as you say clearly delineated) in order to give them a cover save along the same lines of dodginess?

Obviously the CCS wouldnt be covering the blob, but the blob would cover the CCS.

I've been thinking of trying a blob..

Using one unit to screen another = absolutely normal and accepted.

Using two units intermingled to abuse the 5th ed cover rules and have BOTH of them give EACH OTHER cover saves at the same time = dumb and usually house ruled to be illegal.

As an Ork Player I can tell you the "Checkboarding" is not that great...

It slows down the game...
It makes you more vulnerable to blast templates...
It makes it easier to get assaulted and would tie up 2 units...

It is easier to get a Kan/Grot wall...
It is easier to get a KFF...

Mannahnin wrote:

Using two units intermingled to abuse the 5th ed cover rules and have BOTH of them give EACH OTHER cover saves at the same time = dumb and usually house ruled to be illegal.

Also, I think GW ruled on the "Voodoo Formation" (or it may have just been INAT) that if they are intermingled as such, one unit may get a cover save, but may not confer it to the other unit.

"Checkerboarding" = RAW Legal, however, frowned upon by all players in my area. There is using the rules to your advantage, then there is unrealistic manipulation of the rules to gain an advantage. As a player, you have to determine where the line is crossed. If you are asking the question, then you probably have a case to at least discuss it with the opponent.

In tourny's around here, judges frown upon it as well and willd doc you in points if you attempt it in a competition.

If you have a guy that insists upon doing this, consider not playing. If you have no choice, and it's just a fun game - consider conveying the point that you don't have fun when he manipulates the rules. If he still doesn't get it... Consider telling him, ok - lot's play two games... one where you get to do that, and one where you don't... We'll do it your way first. If he agrees, concede the first game & congratulate him... sacarstically to communicate the point. Then tell him you are ready to have fun - let's go to the second game. If he still doesn't 'get it' then you may have a lost cause.

As far as distinguishing units, the player must have some way to indicate unit separation. Commonly done with helmets / no helmets... painted shoulder pads, different unit markings or colors for cammo patterns, etc.

I would not recommend changing the base colors though as bases are a common ground that allow an army to have a sense of cohesion... even in the case of IG where you will have units from all different sorts of plattoons and battle fronts as they are combined into a fighting force, the bases are a source of common ground which serves as an asthetically pleasing presentation when all are done the same.

Cheers and good luck with your opponent. I hope explaining the point has favorable results,

Tac

Nice advice, Tac!

JRedbeard wrote:Would you guys considering something like.... taking a guardsman blob and then having your CCS inside them (but as you say clearly delineated) in order to give them a cover save along the same lines of dodginess?

Obviously the CCS wouldnt be covering the blob, but the blob would cover the CCS.

I've been thinking of trying a blob..

thats fine, people would tell you that that blob is one unit (as you can make 2 guard squads into 1 guard squad) though.

I think that covering your CCS with an infantry blob is fair game... after all dead leaders do not make good ones...

twistinthunder wrote:

JRedbeard wrote:Would you guys considering something like.... taking a guardsman blob and then having your CCS inside them (but as you say clearly delineated) in order to give them a cover save along the same lines of dodginess?

Obviously the CCS wouldnt be covering the blob, but the blob would cover the CCS.

I've been thinking of trying a blob..

thats fine, people would tell you that that blob is one unit (as you can make 2 guard squads into 1 guard squad) though.

IG blobbing their squads up has specific rules and has to be declared.

Tactica wrote:Consider telling him, ok - lot's play two games... one where you get to do that, and one where you don't... We'll do it your way first. If he agrees, concede the first game & congratulate him... sacarstically to communicate the point. Then tell him you are ready to have fun - let's go to the second game. If he still doesn't 'get it' then you may have a lost cause.

It has its downsides too, so it's not broken. Doing what you're suggesting would be a very dicky move, especially if the opponent agrees to your two-game deal. If someone is willing to compromise, you become the bad guy if you stubbornly refuse.