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I have a tournament coming up for 2000 pts. I just want to see the feedback I can get on this list:

HQ: (300pts)
Farseer - Runes of Warding, Runes of witnessing, Spirit Stones, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade, Ghostarmor, Rune Armor, Fortune, and Guide. (150 pts.)
Farseer - Runes of Warding, Runes of witnessing, Spirit Stones, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade, Ghostarmor, Rune Armor, Fortune, and Guide. (150 pts.)

Troops: (522 pts)
10 Guardians - Shuriken Catapults x 10, Platform w/Brightlance. (110 pts)
10 Guardians - Shuriken Catapults x 10, Platform w/Brightlance. (110 pts)
10 Dire Avengers - Avengers S-Catapult x 9. Dire Exarch w/Bladestorm, Defend, Power Weapon, Shimmershield. Mounted in Wave Serpent w/Energy Field, TL Shuriken Catapults, TL Starcannons. (302 pts)

Elite: (544 pts)
6 Howling Banshees - 5 w/Banshee Mask, Power Weapon, Shuriken Pistol. Banshee Exarch w/Acrobatics, War Shout, Bashee Mask, and Mirror Swords. Mounted in Wave Serpent w/Energy Field, TL Shuriken Catapults, TL Starcannons. (253 pts)
6 Howling Banshees - 5 w/Banshee Mask, Power Weapon, Shuriken Pistol. Banshee Exarch w/Acrobatics, War Shout, Bashee Mask, and Mirror Swords. Mounted in Wave Serpent w/Energy Field, TL Shuriken Catapults, TL Starcannons. (253 pts)
6 Striking Scorpions - 5 w/Mandiblaster, Scorpion Chainsword, Shuriken Pistol, Plasma Grenades. Scorpion Exarch w/Mandiblasters, Chainsabres, Plasma Grenades. Mounted in Wave Serpent w/Energy Field, TL Shuriken Catapults, TL Starcannons. (238 pts)

Fast Attack: (120 pts)
Vyper w/Halo-Field, Bright Lance, Shuriken Catapult.

Heavy Support: (310 pts)
Fire Prism w/Halo-Field, TL Shuriken Catapults, Prism Cannon. (150pts)
Wraithlord w/Flamer x2, Bright Lance, Starcannon. (160 pts)

Basically the Guardians, Fire Prism, Vyper, and Wraithlord are the Tank Busters. The Wave Serpents are mainly for supporting my melee troops. The Farseers will be near the Wraithlord and Guardians to Guide/Fortune as needed. The Dire Avengers, Banshees, and Scorpions will wait until the enemy is close enough and strike fast and hard and get back inside the safe environment of the Serpents.

Total Army Points: 1996

very nice but personaly in my eldar army lists its good to include maugnu ra beacuse of his indisposable skill to scare the enemies and pick out army leaders especially if ur against nids and they are usins the small bugs as cover for the big bugs you can use crack shot to take them out easily. oh and instead of that pricey avenger squad you could get two, five man squads of rangers who are great for holding objectives in covor but anyway nice list hope you do well

I am big on vehicles, especially since the Eldar vehicles and damn near indestructible lol. Thats why I even put my Scorpions in a Serpent, just to be able to field another of em. I might lose the Avengers and just field another Guardian squad or 2 with Serpents, I would have to shuffle it around for points, but that would give me 6 Serpents rather than 4.

I dont like it at all. Will post more in depth later.

Well, looks semi-competitive. Some thoughts:
Small squads of Banshees or Scorpions don't cut it.
One Farseer should be enough. She has only a support role.
Guardians with bright lances are one hit wonders.

Looks like crap to me. No offense. Guardians as troops, no fire dragons, an over priced over upgraded vyper and just one prism. It doesn't seem competitive at all to me

Indeed, not a very strong list. You only have 3 scoring units (2 of which will disappear as soon as someone pays attention to them), you don't have enough firepower to deal with horde lists, too many Starcannons, not enough anti tank to deal with partly mechanized lists let alone fully mech lists and can barely scratch AV14. At 2000pts you should be prepared for lists with 2 Land Raiders. You certainly aren't big on vehicles, my 1750 point list usually has 7 tanks and 3 War Walkers and Mech IG lists will have far more than this. Basically you have very little damage output and no ability to take damage yourself. Most of the time Eldar are never really going to be able to take/avoid damage effectively (JetCouncil lists aside) so have to load up with enough high damage output units so you can kill enough stuff to avoid dying yourself.

For starters I recommend you cut down on some pointless upgrades and get some Fire Dragons.

You are running 2 Farseers but you don't have Doom (probably the best Eldar power), never a good idea, particularly when you have a number of units which really need it to function properly (Banshees particularly). You probably don't need both of them to have Runes of Warding and could easily cut Runes of Witnessing as well. Also for the less than the cost of those two seers you could take Eldrad who is definitely worth it at 2000pts. With the amount of psychic defence around now you shouldn't rely on the Farseers too much, they are support units and as such you need to spend enough points on a solid base of strong units to support for them to be most effective.

If you must field Guardians on foot then you should really be taking an Avatar as well otherwise they will run far too often. The other option is Embolden Warlocks in every squad. Bright Lances normally aren't a good idea for Guardians, usually go with Scatter Lasers or EML but this list need more anti tank badly. The Dire Avengers unit is ok, just remember that the Exarch loadout is very expensive and at the end of the day still doesn't make the squad a decent combat unit.

Taking 6 Man squads of Banshees or Scorpions is never a good idea tbh, both squads need as many attacks as they can get to cause damage and more importantly be able to take a bit of damage and still be effective. A 6 man unit isn't even going to do enough damage against MEQ, they would bounce against a Tactical squad even assuming you can get into combat without being shot. A full strength unit on the other hand will stand a much better chance of beating MEQ in HtH and with Doom would probably wipe a Tactical Squad out on the charge. You would also be able to lose a couple of them from shooting and still have enough to be effective.

I would merge the two Banshee units and max out the Scorpion unit. Personally I prefer the Executioner on the Exarch as it is more effective unless you can be sure of getting Doom off. This also leaves you an Elites slot to pick up what is probably one of the best Eldar unit, Fire Dragons. 5-6 in a cheapish Wave Serpent.

That Vyper makes me cringe, while they aren't as bad as many people seem to think they are they are a very difficult unit to use. They are not a good choice for use as anti tank units, that Bright Lance will only hit half the time and the Holofields are a massive waste of points on a unit which is only AV10. Vypers are best used in armies which overload on S6 shooting, take 2 Shuriken Cannons or a Scatter Laser, keep them cheap and blast away.

Fire Prisms are always better when taken in pairs so they can use the linked shots. I also don't recommend taking Holo-fields on them as they actually slightly increase the chance of losing the main weapon (you don't care if you are immobilized if you can still shoot) + it keeps them cheap. You should be using their range as much as possible to minimize damage.

That Wraithlord isn't going to achieve much and has to be babysat by one of the Farseers as well. If you want to use him as an anti tank platform then Bright Lance and EML is probably the way to go.

While I like the large number of Serpents you have in the list, giving them all Starcannons isn't a good idea. In fact Starcannons are the only loadout I don't use. Serpents are probably the best place to put Bright Lances, T/L means they hit more so use them for anti tank and give the Guardians a weapon they are actually likely to hit with. If you don't want to take Bright Lances/can't afford the points, then Scatter Lasers are much cheaper than the Starcannons, equally effective against MEQ and more effective against everything else (including light anti tank work) due to the increased number of shots. While I have recently started to stop using them in favour up the underslung Shuriken Cannon upgrade, Spirit Stones are usually a good investment to keep you mobile, particularly important for the Serpent which will probably be in closer to the enemy (Banshees being dropped off etc).

I don't mean to sound harsh but that list simply won't hold up against any kind of tournament list, while you might be able to draw objective based games if you play for the draw off the start (due to the number of fast skimmers you have) you certainly won't be in with a chance of winning without some major overhauls to the list.

What models do you have available?

i think you should infiltate the scorpions because it forces your opponent to deal with them early on but they are able to hold their own against most squads you're opponent might deplot at the back

Yeah going to have to side with this list will get crushed.

- Fire Prisms solo are Scatter-o-holics and tend to be largely useless.
- 175pt Wratihlords will die fast and hard before you even get in Starcannon range, which btw is a bad pair up since you have anti heavy tank and anti MEQ infantry.
- Vypers with Holofields is like paper laminated... a knife is still going to put a big hole through it. Bright Lance at BS 3 is fail.
- Guardians with Bright Lances... BS3 Bright Lance is fail.
- 6 man CC squads will get smeared. Remember you have to put out enough attacks to completely kill or totally cripple a 10 man opponents. If they survive you WILL get smoked.
- Starcannons are pretty aweful in 5th. Yes you have AP2 but when everything has a cover save that means they went from a 3+ save to a 4+ save for 35 points...
- DA Exarch - Make up your mind on what this squad will be doing. PW/SS or Defend are not really a good upgrades since DA in CC get raped.


From your setup I'm assuming the following:
- Your very low on actual models, so your taking piles of upgrades to get up to the point cost
- Your Farseers are attaching to the guard squads. Bad juju, guardians will die fast and hard then take your farseer with them.
- You have Starcannons glued to everything from 4th Edition

Buy more of the models you decide to field. Pry off glue and put on new heavy weapons. Get an Avatar if your going to run Guardians.

HQ: (300pts)
Farseer - Runes of Warding, Runes of witnessing, Spirit Stones, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade, Ghostarmor, Rune Armor, Fortune, and Guide. (150 pts.)
Farseer - Runes of Warding, Runes of witnessing, Spirit Stones, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade, Ghostarmor, Rune Armor, Fortune, and Guide. (150 pts.)

Meh, eh. Your running mech eldar. You will want to reserve everything at least once. Therefore you need an autarch. I recommend Yriel for the job. Dont complain about special characters, eldar are tier 2 right now.

Troops: (522 pts)
10 Guardians - Shuriken Catapults x 10, Platform w/Brightlance. (110 pts)
10 Guardians - Shuriken Catapults x 10, Platform w/Brightlance. (110 pts)
I used two twelve man squads like this today. I would have been better off not bringing them at all, and just having not given up the kill points. I would drop one squad and put the second in a serpent.

10 Dire Avengers - Avengers S-Catapult x 9. Dire Exarch w/Bladestorm, Defend, Power Weapon, Shimmershield. Mounted in Wave Serpent w/Energy Field, TL Shuriken Catapults, TL Starcannons. (302 pts)
Too many points on these avengers. Drop defend and the shimmershield. It will not help you. Give him dual catapults. And why does your serpent have star cannons. Scatter lasers/EMLs/or lances are the way to go. I recommend lances since you have 0 ability to kill raiders.


Elite: (544 pts)
6 Howling Banshees - 5 w/Banshee Mask, Power Weapon, Shuriken Pistol. Banshee Exarch w/Acrobatics, War Shout, Bashee Mask, and Mirror Swords. Mounted in Wave Serpent w/Energy Field, TL Shuriken Catapults, TL Starcannons. (253 pts)
6 Howling Banshees - 5 w/Banshee Mask, Power Weapon, Shuriken Pistol. Banshee Exarch w/Acrobatics, War Shout, Bashee Mask, and Mirror Swords. Mounted in Wave Serpent w/Energy Field, TL Shuriken Catapults, TL Starcannons. (253 pts)
6 Striking Scorpions - 5 w/Mandiblaster, Scorpion Chainsword, Shuriken Pistol, Plasma Grenades. Scorpion Exarch w/Mandiblasters, Chainsabres, Plasma Grenades. Mounted in Wave Serpent w/Energy Field, TL Shuriken Catapults, TL Starcannons. (238 pts)

Um, I dont want to sound like a douche, but this is a terribad. I mean this is really bad. 6 banshees will die to a 10 man tac squad if they charge it. I would do this. Drop one banshee squad and serpent. Change the other banshee squad out for a fire dragon squad with exarch with crack shot and fire pike. And upgrade the scorpions to ten men. Get rid of the starcannons too. They are serious a horrible choice.

Fast Attack: (120 pts)
Vyper w/Halo-Field, Bright Lance, Shuriken Catapult.

NO, just NO. Drop this.

Heavy Support: (310 pts)
Fire Prism w/Halo-Field, TL Shuriken Catapults, Prism Cannon. (150pts)
Needs spirit stones. NEEDS spirit stones.

Wraithlord w/Flamer x2, Bright Lance, Starcannon. (160 pts)
Drop the guardians and this thing for more points.

Heres my 2k eldar list. Its somewhat cookie cutter, but its near undefeated at 2k.

eldrad
yriel
8 warlocks, 4 spears, 1 enhance, 2 embolden
wave serpent with shuriken cannons, stones

6 dire dragons, exarch with crack shot/fire pike
wave serpent with shuriken cannons, stones

12 guardians with shuriken cannon
wave serpent with bright lance, spirit stones

12 guardians with shuriken cannon
wave serpent with bright lance, spirit stones

5 dire avengers

1 fire prism with holo fields, spirit stones

1 fire prism with holo fields, spirit stones

falcon with eldar missile launcher, spirit stones, holo fields.

need one big squad of guardians. about 20

None of you guys sound like dirtbags to me. I really appreciate all the input. I am rather new to the Eldar and need to learn, everyone starts somewhere, right?

Anyway, I currently have:

Aturach
Avatar
2 Farseers
6 Warlocks
20 Guardians w/2 Platforms
10 Dire Avengers
12 Banshees
6 Scorpions
4 Serpents
1 Prism
2 War Walkers
1 Wraithlord
1 Vyper

Like I said, I am just starting out with these guys. Any and all opinions are welcome, I am new, so be gentle and as long as you are not point-blank rude, I really dont care.

You can only have 2 HQs.
10 man is max for banshees.
the Scorpians should be 10 man.

also show the upgrades on them and points.

I agree with most of what people say, except for Shoggoth here. Not sure who he plays at 2k, but his list has a lot of issues as well.

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:

Fast Attack: (120 pts)
Vyper w/Halo-Field, Bright Lance, Shuriken Catapult.

NO, just NO. Drop this.

Vypers with EMLs and even perhaps an underslung Cannon to boot can be useful if you have extra points, full heavy choices, and not enough points to put something else in a Serpent.

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:

Heavy Support: (310 pts)
Fire Prism w/Halo-Field, TL Shuriken Catapults, Prism Cannon. (150pts)
Needs spirit stones. NEEDS spirit stones.

Need spirit stones on a non-transport vehicle? Hell no. I find bone-dry Prism Tanks the way to go, the 90 points in savings are better spent elsewhere. Falcons are the ones that get the upgrades, they're more tactically important to keep alive. Leaving the Prisms more vulnerable will entice people to deal with them earlier, allowing your more important assets to position themselves

Prisms can be used to do more then shoot and absorb fire. I had one get stunned to hell and lose its gun. It proceeded to ram and kill an ork trukk, turn around, ram and immobilize a battle wagon. They have contested so many objectives last game. If someone shows up with non field non stone prisms its so easy to stop those things from doing anything its not even funny.

With the current models I have, how should I make the list then? The Tournament is 20 March. I can easily change out weapons, everything is magnetized. Just need to know what I should do then.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Based on what everyone has said, I have re-done the list. Some models I do not yet have, but will go and buy them if this list suites well:

HQ: (400 pts)
Eldrad Ulthran (210 pts)
Jain Zar (190 pts)

Troops: (467 pts)
10 Guardians, Scatter Laser Platform. (95 pts)
10 Guardians, Scatter Laser platform. (95 pts)
10 Dire Avengers w/Exarch. Exarch - 2 Shuriken Catapults w/Bladstorm. Wave Serpent w/Shuriken Cannon, Scatter Laser. (277 pts)

Elite: (901 pts)
10 Striking Scorpions w/Exarch. Exarch - Chainsabres, Stalker. Wave Serpent w/Shuriken Cannon, Scatter Laser. (307 pts)
10 howling Banshees w/Exarch. Exarch - Executioner, Shuriken Pistol, Arcobat, War Shout. Wave Serpent w/ Shuriken Cannon, Scatter Laser. (317 pts)
7 Fire Dragons w/Exarch. Exarch - Firepike, Tank Hunter, Crack Shot. Wave Serpent w/Shuriken Cannon, Scatter Laser. (277 pts)

Heavy Support: (230 pts)
Fire Prism (115 pts)
Fire Prism (115 pts)

Let me know if this is a bit better. I made a good amount of changes.

I could also remove both Guardian Squads and 4 Dire Avengers and put in 2 squads of 5 Pathfinders.

Currently I am short the Fire Dragons, Jain Zar, 10 Pathfinders, and 1 Fire Prism, but if this list would be more competative, then I will just got and buy them.

Drop the Banshess or the Scorpions to take a second unit of Fire Dragons, who are a must-have at 2000 points.
Drop the scorpions. No power weapons, no rending, nothing to survive the enemies counterattack.

Jain Zar is, like all phoenix lords, a bargain. No invul saves is a serious drawback. I would call her semi-competitive and would spend the 190 points somewhere else.
Assaulting with Elite troops out of serpents is a high risk, because you have to sit ducks, because you cannot assault from a moving vehicle.

Take 2x 5 Fire Dragon. Every other dragon is a waste of points, because of their suizide status. Drop the exarch. The dragons can do their jobs alone. The firepike is not worth it points because regulary melter just have 12" range.

I dont see how the Firepike would be a waste, honestly...

remenents wrote:I dont see how the Firepike would be a waste, honestly...

Okay, it is only 8 points, but if you ever need that extra 3" of melta range, then your other dragons are gonna be out of range, and thus the unit will probably do squat to all but light transports. If you are running the dragons in a transport, then the pike is pointless.

An exarch with dragons breath flamer is mediocre when going after tanks.

remenents wrote:
HQ: (400 pts)
Eldrad Ulthran (210 pts)
Jain Zar (190 pts)

For 5 additional points I would take Maugan Ra instead of Jain Zar

Troops: (467 pts)
10 Guardians, Scatter Laser Platform. (95 pts)
10 Guardians, Scatter Laser platform. (95 pts)
10 Dire Avengers w/Exarch. Exarch - 2 Shuriken Catapults w/Bladstorm. Wave Serpent w/Shuriken Cannon, Scatter Laser. (277 pts)

Trade the WS lasers for BL, you need additional AT and TL WS is the best place to put it

Elite: (901 pts)
10 Striking Scorpions w/Exarch. Exarch - Chainsabres, Stalker. Wave Serpent w/Shuriken Cannon, Scatter Laser. (307 pts)
10 howling Banshees w/Exarch. Exarch - Executioner, Shuriken Pistol, Arcobat, War Shout. Wave Serpent w/ Shuriken Cannon, Scatter Laser. (317 pts)
7 Fire Dragons w/Exarch. Exarch - Firepike, Tank Hunter, Crack Shot. Wave Serpent w/Shuriken Cannon, Scatter Laser. (277 pts)

Drop Tank Hunter it´s worthless, FD within optimal melta range already add 2d6. When using a FD Exarch I prefer the flamer to have a little bit of flexibility YMMV
Chainsabres are probably the worst choice for the SS Exarch bitting blade or the ever popular PF are better, drop Stalker your SS are riding a WS so ignoring difficult terrain is kind of moot point.
HB, War shout is kind of meh, armies like Orks and SM will probably pass the required morale test better to use those points in something else like the BL upgrade for the DA ride. .
Heavy Support: (230 pts)
Fire Prism (115 pts)
Fire Prism (115 pts)

Pathfinders are a gamble, if the enemy can´t reach you and has a good number of MCs they are gold but die easily to flamers and hordes simply ignore them. As they are metal I wouldn´t buy them, too expensive. Try proxies for a few games before you commit or scratch build yourself some with wood elf bits on guardian bodies.

M.

exactly maugun ra is the best pheonix lord especially at 2000pts also instead of guardians you should take jetbikes thay are so good