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This is a list I've been thinking about a little bit. I'm looking at Mech Eldar, but I don't want a jet council, or the Eldrad/Yriel serpent council. Or really a council at all, for the moment. The general idea of this list is the usual "divide and conquer / deny kill points". What I'm struggling with is whether to bring an Autarch, or an empty Serpent. Here's the list, then I'll talk more.

1750 Mech Eldar
HQ
Farseer - Rwit, Doom, Guide, Stones - 130

Elites
7 fire dragons - 112
- Wave Serpent (TL Cannons, Cannons) - 110
7 fire dragons - 112
- Wave Serpent (TL Cannons, Cannons) - 110

Troops
5 DA - 60
10 DA (Exarch, BS, 2cats) - 152
- Wave Serpent (EML, Cannons) - 140
10 Storm Guardians (2x flamers, Destructor lock) - 127
- Wave Serpent (EML, Cannons) - 140

Heavy Support
Fire Prism - 115
Fire Prism - 115
Falcon (Scatter Laser, cannons, Holofields, Spirit Stones) - 185

Sub Total = 1608.

Unit Roles
The general idea is to play conservatively. The Falcon will stay away form the enemy and be my 'safe' scoring unit. I'll use it's long range to try to limit my foe's mobility by popping transports. The troop unit's EMLs are there to also slow down/stop transports. Once the enemy infantry are exposed, I can start ripping into them with the s6 shooting. If it's safe I'll finish them off with either of my anti-infantry troops options. The prisms are there because I'm a big fan of pie plates, and I play necrons frequently so it's nice to have the option of ap3 or s10 (mmm, insta-gibbing Lords). Fire Dragons are, of course, Fire Dragons. With the Serpents, I went for long range stuff on the troops, who need to be protected, and made the FD serpents cheap, but with enough s6 shooting to scare my opponents.

Here's the dilemma of the list. I've got 140 points to spend, and a few different options.

- Jetbikes.
Cheap, fast, troops. The downside is that they're vulnerable to small arms and don't fit the theme of the list
- Empty Wave Serpent (for the 5 DA unit in the falcon)
- I'm leaning towards this option. The outfit would be TL scatters, underslung cannons, and star engines. I know, I know, no one ever takes Star Engines, but hear me out. (though as I'm thinking the TL scatters could be dropped for cheaper cannons, and I could leave the catas unupgraded). What I was thinking of for an empty serpent was as a combination of objective denial and mobile terrain. Between being a fast skimmer and the star engines, I have a lot of opportunities to use it to take the brunt of enemy fire. I could, for example, fire off my Falcon's weapons, then star engine the naked serpent in front of it, protecting it from return fire (like lascannons). If I disembark to tri-template an enemy unit, the serpent could either tank shock them into a neat bunch, or use the star engines to block my S guards from the return fire. Basically it gives me another tank to throw around, without worrying about getting a payload somewhere or protecting the troops inside
- An Autarch
I know +1 to reserves is great, but I can't find any other use for him in my list. Help?

Now that I'm thinking about it a bit more, I'm still having trouble. If I move to a cheaper option for my empty Serpent, I'll have an extra few points to spend.

And tips or tricks? Any experience with empty Serpents? Any uses for an Autarch in a Mech list that avoids CC?

Thanks in advance.

OK I will say this much about fire prisms: I have always been a big fan of naked Prisms shearly due to the point cost, but I have gone to the dark side. After a recent Con I will run Holo-fields on Prisms now, since on several several occasions they have saved my Fire Prisms and forced them to be a threat the entire game.

The underslugs I really not a fan of since most of the time you will be moving over 6 inches them they get no use. On the EML serpents when do you plan on 6" AND be in 24" range? Is it worth the risk to get those 3 shots off at BS3?

Autarch in this list really doesn't fit any role. I'd avoid him since eh will just eat a pile of points just for the +1.

My suggestion would be:

- Change RoWit to RoWard 0pts (Invaluable vs so many armies, not often have I had a huge need for RoWit)
- Drop underslugs on Serpents +40pts
- Drop one Fire Dragon from each squad +36
- Add Holos to Fire prisms -90pts
- Take empty Wave serpent w/ EML -125

8tps left to spend if I did math right

Defiantly make your dragons 6 man squads. 7 is overkill.
Am not sure about the holo fields but other than that I completely agree with BlueDagger. The empty serpent idea seems pretty nice. I was beginning to think that there were no creative ideas left to make a good list but this certainly looks interesting. It defiantly seems like a better idea than an autarch who generally seem to underwhelm.

All right, so I've been thinking on it, and I think that the best use for the empty serpent would be as another gunboat - Namely an extra EML for transport popping.

So, that said, here's the re-tooled list. Also, some of my math has been corrected.

HQ
Farseer - Rwit, Rward, Doom, Guide, Stones - 145

Elites
6 fire dragons - 98
- Wave Serpent (TL Cannons, Cannons) - 110
6 fire dragons - 98
- Wave Serpent (TL Cannons, Cannons) - 110

Troops
5 DA - 60
- Wave Serpent (EML) - 120
10 DA (Exarch, BS, 2cats) - 152
- Wave Serpent (EML) - 120
10 Storm Guardians (2x flamers, Destructor lock) - 127
- Wave Serpent (EML) - 120

Heavy Support
Fire Prism - 150
Fire Prism - 150
Falcon (Scatter Laser, cannons, Holofields, Spirit Stones) - 185

Total 1745.

I feel that Rwit is a valuable upgrade - for only 10 points I can be completely confident of getting off those powers (barring Imperial Psychic defense), even against 'nids and other eldar.

I'm keeping the underslung cannons on the FD serpents, because once they drop off their payload I want them to still have a bit of a shooting threat. I know it's not much, but it's there. However, you convinced me to keep the 'gunboat' serpents low-cost.

I'm still toying with the idea of a cheap serpent with Star Engines to use as a blocker for other more valuable things, but with the addition of holo-fields to the Prisms, I feel that my ranged capability, mixed with my speed, makes a 'blocker serpent' less useful.

Thoughts on the updated list? Anyone with a last ditch effort to get me to put in a +1 to reserves KP?

I really don't play my eldar the way you do so I can't comment on what you can add to make it 1750ish, but I can say that an Autarch is a really weak option IMO.
If you take an autarch solely for the reserve augmentation, I think it's a waste of points. If you take him in a combat role his wargear options make him the glass cannon
and he costs way too many points to put him in that role. He may dish a few wounds with his suck strength, but he will die against any real CC unit. IMO the only viable
Autarch is attached to a like geared unit performing the same function at a really cheap cost. Fusion gun or Banshee/power sword. whatever. I take Yriel (counts as) not
because I want Yriel, but at 155pts he's only a vehicle upgrade away from most of the tooled out Autarchs I've seen and he actually does have an effect on the game.