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Old Blood -466pts
Light Arm, Shield, Carnosaur, Glyph Necklace (5+ Ward), Blade of Tzunki (+1 Str, no armour saves)

Scar Veteran -167pts
Light Arm, Shield, Spear, Coldone, BSB, Warbanner

Skink Priest -115pts
x2 Scroll

Skink Priest -380pts
Diadem of Power (adds unused power dice to dispell), Engine of the Gods

x10 Skink Skirmishers -70pts
x10 Skink Skirmishers -70pts

x15 Saurus -192pts
Spears, Standard
x15 Saurus -192pts
Spears, Standard

x3 Terradons -90pts
x3 Terradons -90pst

x5 Coldone Cavalry -265pts
Champion, Musc, Standard, Sun Standard (-1 to hit with missle weapons w/in 12", -2 over 12")

Salamander -75pts
Salamander -75pts

Total Points: 2247

Old Blood runs with the CoC and Scar vet. Crushes anything it touches. Saurus blocks anvil while EoG hammers. Terradons and skinks harass and divert charges. Salamanders kill anything in large blocks or with high armour.

900 points wrapped up in that Cavalry unit seems hurtful. March blockers or redirecters can toss nearly half your army out of the game. Obviously the Engine and Terradons will help mitigate that, but seeing half your army in a seven-man cav unit is a little worrisome, especially if they go Stupid on you. Granted Cold Blooded Ld.8 is fantastic but they still do fail and when they do it hurts.

Props on taking a cavalry-heavy direction with Lizardmen. This is good start but I see a few issues right off the bat. I will put in my two cents and then give you my alternative list.
First; the Oldblood is on the right path but he has some issues. Personally, I find that the BoRT is a trick. It SEEMS like a good item but it's expensive as hell. Plus, it eats more than half your kit points
Second; the Scar-Vet can be doing a lot more, he's pretty flat right now.
Third; That Engine Priest needs to be level two.
Fourth; while Saurus are great, if you want CoC, go fast. Saurus with spears are going against the grain of your army.
Fifth; CoC good either small and bare or big and mean.
Last; As I always preach, those Sallies are in need of some extra handlers.

Here is what I would do:

L: Oldblood; L. Armour, BBoC, E. Shield, Bane Head, Glyph Necklace, Carnosaur Pendant, Carnosaur (465)
H: Scar-Vet; L. Armour, Shield, Wardrum, SoM, BSB, CO (188)
H: Priest; Magic level, Diadem, Scroll, EotG (440)

C: 11 Skink Skirmishers (77)
C: 11 Skink Skirmishers (77)
C: 11 Skink Skirmishers (77)
C: 16 Skinks with two Kroxigor (190)

S: 3 Terradons (90)
S: 3 Terradons (90)
S: 9 CoC; Full Command, SSoC (405)

R: 2 Salamanders; extra handler(s) (160)


Oldblood is better (IMO). 1+/5+Sv; with the BBoC you are cutting four points of Sv off the enemy, which should be enough to do some damage. Bane Head for general killing and the CP because the Carnosaur is going to be frenzied to, so the Oldblood might as well get an attack just the same.

Scar-Vet has a 0+Sv; Wardrum lets the CoC he will be with march whenever they want. SoM for some extra bite.

The Priest saves dice and does some minimal casting until he his with the EotG.

Skinks and Skrok fill core and help keep things away from your juicy fat CoC unit and maybe the Oldblood. Skrok adds some solid help the the EotG if it needs it.

Terradons hunt the pesky cannon and whatnot that is going to pelt the Oldblood.

CoC are the focus.This is a scary units. I have run one like the before. SSoC keeps some fire off them as the run up and eat everything!

This army is fast and killy. Everything is either M6 or M7. Watch the Oldblood and use Skinks/Terradons to keep small throw-away units from running him around all game and you should be golden.

Wow, I have to say that I like plusARGON's edited list! A killer hammer (but no anvil) and lots of fast units. I think it would be very fun to play!

Doesn't the oldblood get frenzy from the carnosaur, anyway? If so, why does he need the pendant? I thought it was redundant.

I also like the idea of a single EoTG with the diadem. If you're including another priest, I'd give him the diadem so that the EoTG can cast. But if you upgrade the EoTG priest to a level 2, he'll generate 2 dispel dice, and he can save 2 of his, so you'll have 6. That's good enough magic defense imho, and you've still got the engine powers to use.

I just played a (friendly) VC list yesterday, and have 5 dispel dice and 2 scrolls, and I felt the scrolls were almost unecessary. I think you could get away playing most (decently built, not ungodly) armies with 6 dispel dice and no scrolls at this point level. Lets you use those points for fun stuff

I expect to play this in a tournament environment, where 8 dispel dice and three scrolls isn't even close to enough to take on VC. Even our friendly games are filled with tournament lists.

EoG already adds a power and dispel dice to the priests pool, giving him two each. Making him a level 2 just gives me one more power and another spell. And there isn't much from heavens I will be casting much.

I'm weighing the option of the wardrum on the BSB. Trying to decide what is more important, being able to march always, or a better chance at winning combat. Because the carnosaur will frenzy after the first charge, and then just run himself the entire game. So how much does that wardrum really help?

snowden wrote:EoG already adds a power and dispel dice to the priests pool, giving him two each. Making him a level 2 just gives me one more power and another spell. And there isn't much from heavens I will be casting much.

Is this right? I'm a little rusty on lizzies since I sold the army book, but I thought the entry stated that he generates power and dispel dice for one level higher than he is. If you make him level 2, he generates power and dispel dice for a level 3 wizard- i.e., 3 power dice, and 2 dispel dice. That means he could generates 2 dispel dice, and save 2 more with the diadem if he wanted to. I you leave him as a level 1, he generates 2 power dice, and only 1 dispel dice.

I'm not sure why people usually put the diadem on the EoTG priest if they're taking another, since it's better to save your weaker priest's power dice as dispel dice.

Also, the plaque is the item that gives him an extra spell- otherwise if you upgrade him, he'll generate 3 power dice, but still only know 2 spells (as the entry says he generates power and dispel dice for a wizard of one higher level, not that he knows an additional spell). The only way to let him know an additional spell is with the plaque of tepok.

Correct me if I'm wrong someone, but I'm pretty sure this is how those pieces of wargear are worded.

So if you're not casting much, it's still worth it to level up the wizard... 25 points for one more dispel dice isn't bad at all (I pay the same price for an upgrade on my wood elf treeman that gives me one extra dispel dice).

RiTides is right in all of that.

Nice list Plus, and I do love me some drums

I think 2x 12 spear saurus w/ musician isn't so completely out of place if Snow doesn't want to run the skrolk and the third unit of skirmishers. I think the points work out similarly, and they provide a little extra pokey bit of infantry back-up. I am happy to see that you're getting so much mileage out of the skinks-n-krox combo, it had looked to be kind of a flop at first.

Why the combined sallies though? For the combat punch and shared misfire-skinks pool? I had thought that 2x lone hunter packs were better for cruising flanks and taking opportunistic shots.

- Salvage

Sadly, a list like this is prone to being low on DD. If you want to stay fast and have more magic there are some options. Tehenhauin with EotG or Mazzie are good options. They are mad expensive but will give you the dice you want(-ish). Try this on for size:

L: Tehenhauin; EotG (540)
H: Priest; Magic level, Diadem, Scroll (440)
H: Priest; Magic level, BSoS, Scroll (440)

C: 11 Skink Skirmishers (77)
C: 10 Skink Skirmishers (70)
C: 10 Skink Skirmishers (70)

S: 4 Terradons (120)
S: 4 Terradons (120)
S: 5 CoC; Musician (185)
S: 5 CoC; Musician (185)

Total: 2247

A list like this won't make you too many friends because you have three EotG... () but hey, if you are going to fight VC who cares?! With three EotG one can ward while the others lower Lore casting values for both the Lores you have. PD are at eleven (ten/nine activating the Diadem) with a one use bound and DD are at eight (or at nine/ten) and two scrolls. The army is still moving fast at 6", 7" or flying. You don't have a lot of hitting power but using the EotG and CoC together will make short work of most anything (especially undead or daemons with BA from three EotG!). The BSoS is a personal favourite, it's kind of a left-field item from Lizardmen, too bad it's only on use...

How about this:

L: Lord Mazdamundi (620)
H: Priest; Magic level, Diadem, Scroll, EotG (440)
H: Priest; Magic level, CoF, Scroll (150)
H: Scar-Vet; L. Armour, Shield, Wardrum, SoM, BSB, CO (188)

C: 10 Skink Skirmishers (70)
C: 10 Skink Skirmishers (70)
C: 16 Skinks with two Kroxigor (190)

S: 4 Terradons (120)
S: 9 CoC; Full Command, SSoC (405)

Total: 2253

I kept this list closer to the original because it works more like it. Same dice amounts as the other list, but you have a bit more of a powerful caster in Mazzie (who is AMAZING; OT a bit here... I use him in a 3k list and he is sick nas-tay!) but fewer EotG to play with. The trade off is that the fat CoC are back.
My defense of the Wardrum on the Scar-Vet is that the unit is going to be marched blocked ALL THE TIME. Trust me, whenever I run a unit like that without the Wardrum I wish I had it. The last thing an enemy wants is for that unit to hit so they are going to try and slow it as much as they can.


The curse of both these lists is that more than half the army points is sunk in characters. Granted, they aren't going to go down easy but these are high risk = high reward lists. Sadly this is what you have to do to get lots of dice and still be mobile. If you are willing to slow down you can save points. Oldbloods are for fighty-killy-stabby lists; using them to balance you lack of dice by simply murdering everything. Also, the CP on the Oldblood is not as redundant as you might think. Yes, the Carnosaur is going to frenzy so you might as well frenzy the OB for the extra attack instead of letting him get dragged around with no bonus.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Boss_Salvage wrote:

I think 2x 12 spear saurus w/ musician isn't so completely out of place if Snow doesn't want to run the skrolk and the third unit of skirmishers. I think the points work out similarly, and they provide a little extra pokey bit of infantry back-up. I am happy to see that you're getting so much mileage out of the skinks-n-krox combo, it had looked to be kind of a flop at first.

The spears can work if going a bit slower is a option. I was just going for max speed on the list. I agree that they would be a fine addition. As for the Skrok, I find that they work well if you can get them in the right situations (mostly flank charges). I find that about eighty percent of the the they earn their points back. Though not being able to turn around bites!

Boss_Salvage wrote:

Why the combined sallies though? For the combat punch and shared misfire-skinks pool? I had thought that 2x lone hunter packs were better for cruising flanks and taking opportunistic shots.

- Salvage

Habit... I run mine combined. I just... do... heh. Nothing against the other way. It gives some leeway in the range too.

RiTides wrote:I'm not sure why people usually put the diadem on the EoTG priest if they're taking another, since it's better to save your weaker priest's power dice as dispel dice.

Because I won't be casting anything from the lore of heavens. Because it sucks.

Also, the plaque is the item that gives him an extra spell- otherwise if you upgrade him, he'll generate 3 power dice, but still only know 2 spells (as the entry says he generates power and dispel dice for a wizard of one higher level, not that he knows an additional spell). The only way to let him know an additional spell is with the plaque of tepok.

I'm aware. If I upgrade him, I get an extra power dice and an extra spell. Both are fairly useless to me.

So if you're not casting much, it's still worth it to level up the wizard... 25 points for one more dispel dice isn't bad at all (I pay the same price for an upgrade on my wood elf treeman that gives me one extra dispel dice)

If I upgrade him, I either lose a scroll or take 25pts away from something else. So no, it's not worth it IMO.

My defense of the Wardrum on the Scar-Vet is that the unit is going to be marched blocked ALL THE TIME. Trust me, whenever I run a unit like that without the Wardrum I wish I had it. The last thing an enemy wants is for that unit to hit so they are going to try and slow it as much as they can.

Hmmm, I'll try that and see how it works.

I'm not looking for something with a lot of DD. I just need enough magic defense to protect me from those game changing spells.

Well if you want magic defense on the cheap just take a scroll caddy or two. Priest with two scrolls is only 115 points.

No problem... just make sure you know that this is not correct...

snowden wrote:EoG already adds a power and dispel dice to the priests pool, giving him two each

He has two power dice, and one dispel dice as he is...

I don't see how anything without a slann can be very competitive these days without being something cheesy like double EotG or something.

As much fun as a carnosaur is, even without the Large Target rule it is a magnet for enemy fire.

Point for point it is far less useful than a slann. It's offense is at best equal, it's defense is far worse, and it's utility is little to none.

Even at 3k I would rather have a second slann than a carnosaur. Right now I would only take one if a campaign required a different general for each force of your army.

2 scroll caddies is harsh, although if they are bare bones then I suppose it is 230 points well spent.

As for "never" casting with your skinks, unless you are storing with the diadem, there is no reason NOT to bother casting the few spells they can have. Rerolls in combat is nothing to shrug off as insignificant, and they have a 33% chance to get at least 1 magic missile with no range limit.

Carnosaurs are rough these days. I agree that Slann are clearly superior, they can find a place. I won't ramble on about that, though.

Have you ever run a two Slann 3k? It is, quite possibly, THE most hilarious thing I have ever done.

Lore of Heavens does suck; it sucks BAD but I agree with aerethan. You might as well cast with the dice you aren't storing, otherwise you are really just wasting points. If you manage to cast something you can reap the minimal benefits of that.

If I did run a second one it would be the ethereal w/ regen workup to run around solo.