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My friend and I were ending a round, CSM vs IG. He attacked two infantry squads with two obliterators with heavy flamers. Focusing his fire, he wiped out one squad, but did not affect the second squad at all. He then wanted to assault the remaining squad. Others watching the game said that he could not assault the second squad, because he fired on the first squad only and wiped it out. He feels that he should be able to declare assault on the second unit because the one he fired on is no longer assaultable.

Assault rules say that if your units cannot all fit in B2B contact with the unit you fired on, they can assault another nearby unit. But it does not say what happens when the first unit is destroyed by gunfire before the assault phase.

What can he do here? Can he assault the second squad, or not?

Razgryz wrote:My friend and I were ending a round, CSM vs IG. He attacked two infantry squads with two obliterators with heavy flamers. Focusing his fire, he wiped out one squad, but did not affect the second squad at all. He then wanted to assault the remaining squad. Others watching the game said that he could not assault the second squad, because he fired on the first squad only and wiped it out. He feels that he should be able to declare assault on the second unit because the one he fired on is no longer assaultable.

Assault rules say that if your units cannot all fit in B2B contact with the unit you fired on, they can assault another nearby unit. But it does not say what happens when the first unit is destroyed by gunfire before the assault phase.

What can he do here? Can he assault the second squad, or not?

No, he cannot assault. Tell him, next time, if he wants to multi assault, don't kill off one of the units.

Also obliterators have TL flamers, not fheavy flamers any longer.

AS Gwar pointed out - he declared shooting at one unit. If that unit is wiped out then no may assault may happen.

Razgryz wrote:

Assault rules say that if your units cannot all fit in B2B contact with the unit you fired on, they can assault another nearby unit. But it does not say what happens when the first unit is destroyed by gunfire before the assault phase.

This is completely wrong, and I am surprised Gwar missed it. The rules for multi assault simply says move the closest model to the closest to the 1st unit to be assaulted. All other models can assualt which ever unit they want as long as they stay within Coherancy of a modle that has already moved. (paraphrased)

Also if you completely destroy a unit you get no assaults that turn. Transports and passengers being the only exception.

jbunny wrote:This is completely wrong, and I am surprised Gwar missed it.

I answer only what I am asked. If I tried to correct every mistake people make when posting on YMTC, I'd have gone mad earlier than I did.

From what I can see, the correct answer to this question depends on WHICH of the two units was declared as being the shooting target (as they must pick only one) of the Obliterators. While the flamer templates can hit and damage two units, only one of them is named as the target. If that unit is destroyed* (or falls back out of reach), the Obliterators are not allowed to declare a charge on a new & different unit.


*exception: If the destroyed unit is a transport, and the oblits manage to destroy it with their flamers, they are permitted to declare an assault on a unit which disembarks out of said transport when it is destroyed.

So if he had made sure to spread the wounds around so neither unit was wiped out, he could have assaulted, but by focusing on the one squad and wiping it he loses his assault? Thanks, we were both wondering about that.

Also remember the template rules; he had to get as many of the targeted squad under the template as possible, ignoring other squads as situation determines.

Razgryz wrote:So if he had made sure to spread the wounds around so neither unit was wiped out, he could have assaulted, but by focusing on the one squad and wiping it he loses his assault? Thanks, we were both wondering about that.

There is no abiltiy to "spread the wounds around", as you are restricted to the following:

1) As many models from the target unit must be covered by the template as possible. It is irrelevant if you want to cover other units, you MUST do this
2) Each unit takes as many hits as ITS models are under the template, you dont add them up and split them between the units however you see fit.

As such it is very likely (with 3s to kill, rerolling) that you will kill al arge number of guard from the initial squad, either wiping them out or causing them to fall back.

Exactly.

In placement you can wiggle the templates around a bit as long as you cover the maximum number of models in the targeted unit (and don't break any other restrictions, like covering your own models). So if two positions of the template both cover the maximum number of models in the declared target, the firer can choose between those two positions if one is more advantageous (like to hit more or fewer of the other unit, depending on the situation).

Once you figure out how many models are covered in each unit, you resolve the shooting against each unit separately.