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I have two specific questions that I'm hoping I can get some advice with since I play Chaos and am only semi-familiar with Codex Marines.

1) I'd like to use a Drop Pod squad since its something that Chaos can't do. Is there a preferred loadout for all purpose? My original thought was Power Weapon/Plasmagun/Multi-Melta. It should give me rapid fire goodness when I land and then create a 24" threat zone around my pod squad.

2) I'd like to use a Razorback (TL Heavy Bolter) and a Plasma Cannon, again because Chaos can't. Whats the best method of melding those two together? Sternguards? Devastators? Tac squad? Do I keep the squad together or combat squad them? Etc etc.

I think a lot depends on how you're going to use the Drop Pods, how many you want to use, etc.

I haven't actually played a full sized game in a little bit (lots of Combat Patrol), but last year one my core big game list elements were 3 drop pods. One contained 10 Sternguard, the others 10 Tac Marines. Sternguards carry a Powerfist and a bunch of Combi-Meltas. Their core role is usually to drop down and blow the hell out of something big; they've even taken down Baneblades in Turn 1. After that they get stuck in fighting it out, hopefully around an objective or in the enemy's rear. Tactical 1 also comes down in a pod with a Powerfist, Plasmagun, and Missile Launcher. They almost always come down on top of an objective, hopefully with the Sternguard nearby. The Plasmagun could definitely be swapped for a Meltagun or a Flamer depending on your local opponents. Tactical Three comes down on Reserves in the 3rd pod. They land whereever they're needed to shore up a positon, or take an objective. To support that, Tactical 1's Pod has a teleport homer, and Tactical 2's Sergeant carries one in a Rhino so that the 3rd pod can come down exactly where it's needed. Tactical 2 in the Rhino is pretty generic. Their job is to rush over ground to an objective. Tactical 3 supports them in a Razorback, combatting squadding a Missile Launcher or Plasma Cannon to stay with the defensive block while Meltagun half charges forward in the Razorback.

I'm probably going to change a lot of that but it worked well for me in the local 'Ard Boyz and so on. It needs to be scaled down a bit for lower points, that's a lot of Tac Squads below 1850 or so, but the general ideas stick.

Some thoughts:

- It's probably not worth taking a heavy weapon in the drop pods, unless you're figuring on it staying out of close combat and being able to stay still and shoot stuff. My guys are usually in the thick of it or running around, so I don't get much use of it. I only take the missile launcher on the off chance it'll be useful because it's free.

- I run a straight heavy bolter Razorback, which I've found pretty useful. I like putting a combat squad in it to support the other guys forward, or to camp out an objective, while the other half sits back as a mini fire base. In that role, they hang out with my Devastators, which I usually run as two heavy bolters and two plasma cannons, and which I've found to be pretty successful.

When I've utilized the Razorback, it has been with an HQ/Sgt plus 4 (flamer/melta to taste).

I've tried to utilize TL Assault Cannon (mini Baal), with mixed results.

Combat Squads are always nice 'cause you can get mini assault with mini devestator. Just depends on your gaming style I suppose.

I routinely use 3+ razorbacks with a mix of Stronos (las/plasma) and assault cannon turrets as my main troops. Each razor has 5 tac marines including a sergeant with a combi-flamer. They do extremely well in a mechanized army: cheap, mobile, shooty, scoring.

I used to use powerfists in my tac squads, but they kept getting out of their rides to assault things and getting killed. I used to combat squad big units and put half into the razor, but the half standing in the open always got killed. Now I go whole tournaments without taking the tac marines out of the case because they never need to leave their transports to do their jobs (and razors are very survivable in a mech army).

The problem with putting tac marines in a drop pod is that they aren't very strong offensively, so whatever you drop near is going to be able to turn and kill you before you kill it--and they aren't defensively strong enough to avoid being killed for the duration of a game unless they're inside a rhino. Mostly drop pods work better either with sternguard units or with dreads (or both).

I think unless your army is assault based, Dreads utilize Drop Pods more effectively.

Assuming I choose to pod a Dreadnought instead, how bad of a decision would it be to take a firebase of 6 Sternguard and 2 Plasma Cannons with a TL HB Razorback as transport/gunship?

Sternguard are only points-effective when they're shooting, and they can't shoot out of a razorback. Riding in a razor is fine for tac marines, since they're comparatively cheap and their main function is really just to be a durable scoring unit (something that sternguard can't even do).

That's why sternguard synergize so well with drop pods--it takes them very quickly right to where they can do the most damage with their boltguns. Even a rhino would limit sternguards' firepower.

Also you pay a premium for that sternguard bolter, and it has ammo that can threaten any target you might want to shoot at. One school of thinking says when you give up that fancy boltgun by further upgrading a sternguard weapon, you're throwing away something that was fine to start with. Also they get the cheapest combi upgrades in the codex.

10 sternguard with 6 or 8 combimeltas can threaten any target in the game from 12" away.

Flavius Infernus wrote:Sternguard are only points-effective when they're shooting, and they can't shoot out of a razorback. Riding in a razor is fine for tac marines, since they're comparatively cheap and their main function is really just to be a durable scoring unit (something that sternguard can't even do). .

Sorry I wasn't clear. I was thinking more of using the Razorback as a mobile turret instead of a transport option. Deploy them in cover, start blasting targets with the PC and 30" (Kraken?) Bolter rounds with the TL HB firing in support. The Razorback can also help them redeploy if they have to or it can block attempts to tank shock them but mostly its 40 points for a TL Heavy Bolter.

Here's how I use drop pods:

Sgt with PW, and either a meltagun or a flamer, and then a heavy weapon. Once the pod lands, I combat squad them, one half being the Sgt and the special weapon, the other half being the heavy weapon.

I spend the turn running the heavy weapon team into cover, since the heavy weapon can't shoot the turn it comes in anyway.

The other half moves and shoots its way to the closest objective, or an advantageous firing position based on game type.

minigun762 wrote:

Flavius Infernus wrote:Sternguard are only points-effective when they're shooting, and they can't shoot out of a razorback. Riding in a razor is fine for tac marines, since they're comparatively cheap and their main function is really just to be a durable scoring unit (something that sternguard can't even do). .

Sorry I wasn't clear. I was thinking more of using the Razorback as a mobile turret instead of a transport option. Deploy them in cover, start blasting targets with the PC and 30" (Kraken?) Bolter rounds with the TL HB firing in support. The Razorback can also help them redeploy if they have to or it can block attempts to tank shock them but mostly its 40 points for a TL Heavy Bolter.

Maybe step back and think about it this way for a minute:

You want to take a unit that pays a premium for the ability to move 6" and fire 2 shots per model with ammunition that has the flexibility to hurt all kinds of targets in the game, then you want to pay even more points to take away a couple of those awesome boltguns for a weapon that can't move and shoot, then put the models into a situation where they can really only effectively fire one shot each of one particular kind of ammunition while not moving, and add a razorback?

It sounds to me like a plan that doesn't play to the strengths of the unit. But YMMV.

Flavius Infernus wrote:
You want to take a unit that pays a premium for the ability to move 6" and fire 2 shots per model with ammunition that has the flexibility to hurt all kinds of targets in the game, then you want to pay even more points to take away a couple of those awesome boltguns for a weapon that can't move and shoot, then put the models into a situation where they can really only effectively fire one shot each of one particular kind of ammunition while not moving, and add a razorback?

Thats exactly the kind of slap in the face I need with SM.
Like I mentioned, what I really want is a way to effectively combine a Plasma Cannon (on an infantry model) with a Razorback. I can only think of 3 ways to do that, Tactical Marines, Devastators or Sternguard.

Commander Endova wrote:
Sgt with PW, and either a meltagun or a flamer, and then a heavy weapon. Once the pod lands, I combat squad them, one half being the Sgt and the special weapon, the other half being the heavy weapon.
I spend the turn running the heavy weapon team into cover, since the heavy weapon can't shoot the turn it comes in anyway.
The other half moves and shoots its way to the closest objective, or an advantageous firing position based on game type.

That seems like a really smart idea to me. I think that might just work out for me. Thanks!

I commonly take full Tactical Squads with Razorbacks, and find that the backfield squads with heavy weapons rarely if ever die, or even get seriously threatened. Marines spaced out in 3+ cover are much more difficult to kill than one might expect.

To throw in my 2c, my friend had quite an effective setup with a razorback with TL Las, acting as a transport for a 6 man sternguard squad with 2 plasma cannons.

It may seem like a complete waste of points, Sternguard are, I know, primarily designed to drop down, fire two, pop tanks and then start man handling everything within 18 inches, but when you're trying to assault an objective that has even one of these squads (and he had 3) just to see your rhinos popped by las cannons and then your troops obliterated by plasma blasts, you really start to reconsider the classic wisdom of sternguard.

Forgive the long windedness.

Basically, if you're going to use sternguard with heavy weapons, they will become defensive/supporting units, and the antithesis of what (I think) they were originally designed for. That doesn't mean don't use them in this fashion, but just make sure that they are actually what your army could use effectively.