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Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




List edited, I'll need more playtesting now

Librarian - Null Zone, Might of the Ancients 100pts
Captain - Bike, Lightning Claw 150pts

8 Sternguard - Rhino, Powerfist 260pts
8 Sternguard - Rhino, Powerfist 260pts

10 Tactical - Razorback TLHB, Plasmagun, Plasmacannon 225pts
10 Tactical - Razorback TLHB, Plasmagun, Plasmacannon 225pts
10 Tactical - Rhino, Meltagun, Missile Launcher, Powerfist 235pts
10 Tactical - Rhino, Meltagun, Missile Launcher, Powerfist 235pts
8 Bike/Attack Bike - MultiMelta, 2xMeltagun, Powerfist 310pts
8 Bike/Attack Bike - MultiMelta, 2xMeltagun, Powerfist 310pts

Landspeeder - Multimelta, HeavyFlamer 70pts
Landspeeder - Multimelta, HeavyFlamer 70pts
Attack Bike - Multimelta 50pts

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2010/02/27 23:35:42


 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Bump... Nothing from anyone?
   
Made in us
Long-Range Ultramarine Land Speeder Pilot




Dallas, TX

Looks solid to me. If it were up to me, I'd remove the Inquisitor or the Librarian (or both) and/or the Whirlwind, and get a Captain on a Bike with a Relic Blade and Storm Shield to make those nice big Bike units count as Troops.

But, it looks like you're going for Hood coverage, and I can completely understand that. I think the list you have is pretty strong, but heavy on Melta. I would think about changing the Meltagun/Multi-Melta/Powerfist squads to PlasmaCannon/Plasmagun/Combi-Plasma just to get some good AP2 blasts and rapid fires for TMCs and pesky FNP squads. If you do that, I'd switch the PGs on the Lascannon squads to Meltaguns. Just to clarify, here's what I'd do with your Troops section:


10 Tactical - Razorback TLHB, Powerfist, Meltagun, Lascannon 250pts
10 Tactical - Razorback TLHB, Powerfist, Meltagun, Lascannon 250pts
10 Tactical - Rhino, Plasmagun, Plasma Cannon, Combi-Plasma 230pts
10 Tactical - Rhino, Plasmagun, Plasma Cannon, Combi-Plasma 230pts

(Net + 30 points)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/02/25 18:19:16




Ultramarines Second Company - ~4000 points

Dark Eldar WIP - ~800 points

 
   
Made in us
Boosting Ultramarine Biker



Saco, ME

Why not save a Fast slot and attach one of those Attack Bikes to each 8-man Biker Squads? This gives you some ablative wounds if you Combat Squad, since Attack Bikes die to a single Krak Missile.

I'd dump the Librarian and pick up a bike Captain, for the Troops Bikers. HUGELY valuable change, which allows you to turbo-boost late-game for objectives and table quarters.

 
   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick




Fond du Lac, Wi

Librarian - Null Zone, and Smite or Machine Curse 100pts

Allied Inquisitor - Psyhic Hood, Psycannon, Emperor's Tarrot 75pts
8 Sternguard - Rhino, Powerfist 260pts
8 Sternguard - Rhino, Powerfist 260pts

10 Tactical - Razorback TLHB, Plasmagun, Lascannon 230pts
10 Tactical - Razorback TLHB, Plasmagun, Lascannon 230pts
10 Tactical - Rhino, Meltagun, MultiMelta, Powerfist 235pts
10 Tactical - Rhino, Meltagun, MultiMelta, Powerfist 235pts

2 Attack Bike - MultiMelta 100pts
8 Bikers - 2 Meltagun, Powerfist 260pts
8 Bikers - 2 Meltagun, Powerfist 260pts

Predator - Autocannon, Sponson Heavyboltgun 85pts
Predator - Autocannon, Sponson Heavyboltgun 85pts
Whirlwind - 85pts


Wow bit of work to do here. You're lacking something big in the army, namely anti-horde firepower. You're going to run into problems against hordes that weave their units together giving both units a cover save, name Orks and Nids, but there are others. Second thing is you completely lack focus in the army. Time to get to work.

HQ- Librarian is a fantastic first choice for HQ choices. You got his first power right in chosing Null Zone, but the second power needs work. Machine curse is terrible unless you want to shake and stun vehicles to death. Not a good power. Smite isn't bad, but there are better choices. You're better off taking avenger if you want an assault weapon. AP2 just means no FNP or Termy killing, while Avenger can kill more than four since it auto hits, wounds better since it's a higher Strength, and kills Marines just as well. The other power worth mentioning is Gate of Infinity for objective contesting purposes in the last round of the game, or removing sternguard from trouble. My suggestion is take 2 Librarians with Gate and Null if you're going to run 2 squads of Sternguard.

Elites- First off the Inquisitor... just bad. The psychic hood is normally a good choice, but not on the LD 8 Inquisitor. That means you have to roll THREE higher than your opponent. If he rolls a 4 you can't beat him, so that's a 50% chance of that wargear doing nothing. Cut the loss and remove the inquisitor since in this list he's a points filler. Moving on to those Sternguard units.. go big or go home. Sternguard work best in 5 and 10 man sizes because of the Combat squads rule. If you're going to use them, make them ten man. If you make them ten man, mount them in a drop pod not a rhino because where the Sternguard really shine is their 5 point combi weapons. The ability to drop them in relatively protected in the drop pod gives you the ability to unleash up to 10 meltagun shots on an unsuspecting enemy tank. Also drop the powerfists since you do not want SG units locked in combat, use Combat tactics to fail a leadership before combat if possible since you'll regroup and cut them apart with bolter fire.

Troops- Typically you want to try to take only Rhinos or only Razorbacks. If your goal is to sit back and shoot go Razorbacks, if it's to get in close and disgorge a wave of marines go Rhinos. Next Dump the plasma and lascannon squads. You're be better served going with a Flamer/Missile combo because the Lascannons lack anti-horde capability. While a tactical squad should specialize in one thing I.e. Suicide Melta, it should be able to add a second tactical flexibility option. Whether it's being a speed bump in the case of the Suicide melta, or it's taking shots of opportunity at a group of orks. Power fists suck Tac squads since they do not belong in combat. You have 2 attacks hit once wound once. 25 points for one wound before you get ripped up by combat units isn't worth it.

Fast Attack- Dump the bikers or drop them down to 5 man squads. You're probably better off going with 3 attack bikes instead though, since they have a threat range of 36" (12" movement and 24" melta) and a vehicle danger radius of 24". 110 points less you get an Extra melta, extra range with the melta, but lose 2 wounds. A fair tradeoff in my eyes.

Heavy Support- Dakka preds are a good choice, take 3 instead of 2. Whirlwinds are pretty bad choices since it's True LoS all they need to see is a piece of the vehicle (Including the weapon) to be able to shoot it. Not to mention for the same points you can increase the front armor by 2 points and have the potential to take out just as many models per turn. Cut the Whirlwind it's just a points vaccuum since it's nothing more than an annoyance to your opponent. In a horde army you're normally fearless (Orks and Nids), or will just Go to Ground so they can get back into the fight (Imperial Guard) and improve their cover save.

Now that I'm done shooting holes in the list I'll offer my take on a better version to the list to go with while keeping most of what you've got in the list into account.


HQ-
Librarian- Null Zone, Gate of Infinity, Epistolary- 150 points
Librarian- Null Zone, Gate of Infinity, Epistolary- 150 points

Elites-
10 Sternguard- 10 Combi-Meltas Droppod- 335 points
10 Sternguard- 10 Combi-Meltas Droppod- 335 points

Troops
10 Tacticals- Flamer, ML, Rhino- 205 points
10 Tacticals- Flamer, ML, Rhino- 205 points
10 Tacticals- Flamer, ML, Rhino- 205 points
10 Tacticals- Flamer, ML, Rhino- 205 points

Fast Attack
Attack Bike Squadron- 3 Multi Meltas- 150 points
Attack Bike Squadron- 3 Multi Meltas- 150 points
Attack Bike Squadron- 3 Multi Meltas- 150 points

Heavy Support
Predator- Autocannon 2 Heavy Bolters- 85 points
Predator- Autocannon 2 Heavy Bolters- 85 points
Predator- Autocannon 2 Heavy Bolters- 85 points

Total- 2495 points

Attach the Librarians to the Sternguard squad. Sternguard drop in taking out high priority/points targets. This means landraiders, or splitting them into combat teams and hitting transports. The Attack bikes hit the heavy support tanks first turn; Hammerheads, Preds, etc. If the Sternguard take wounds to enemy shooting fail the LD test to fall back and regroup at the end. Use the librarian to gate them away and keep their bolters firing. At this point they won't be seeing the danger the Tac Squads represent to objectives because the sternguard are being a nuisance to everything on their side of the board.. Remember you only have to take ONE objective more than your opponent to win. This offers you Anti-tank firepower, Anti-horde firepower, and a pair of misdirection units in the Sternguard that can rock your opponents backfield and draw fire away from the tacticals until their set on the objectives and can fire from inside the Rhinos. The reason I upgraded the librarians to Epistolary (I very rarely play them this way) that it allows you to keep coverage of Null zone up while bouncing the Sternguard, or to use their Force weapon if you have no choice. With the 2 psychic hoods you should have more than enough coverage to scare enemy psykers.

Edit: Spelling

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/02/25 19:35:47


“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe.”
-Einstein 
   
Made in us
Twisting Tzeentch Horror




Golden, CO

For the last commenter's suggestions - change one of the tac Rhinos to a drop pod. That way you have three, and you can drop the two sternguard together on the first turn.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




I've changed up the list quite a bit.

Towards GeneralRetreat and TheRhino...

I'd never considered a biking commander, although if I took one it would make an awful lot of sense to combine those bikes... Relic blade is without a doubt the right weapon for a biking captain too... Also leaves me with 3 open fast attack choices, which are generally better than the heavy support options...

The inquisitor is sort of a knee jerk reaction to seer councils and nids, hood's been hit of miss although though the psycannon has been great.

Tactical squads are pretty much where I need them to be. Had 5 free points with the rearrangement so I added a PlasmaCannon.

@Lone Dragoon

The list was most definitely not lacking in fire power, and unlike the mess you posted it doesn't immediately get rolled in close combat. I want versatility the 'lack of focus' is intentional, I don't want specialists that are wasted in all but a single situation.

Minus the elite Inquisitor's hood being of dubious value, I disagree with just about every statement you've made. Sorry but with the strongest terms, I would never run that list.

   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




One final bump, then ill be quiet and go test over the weekend.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

I like the list, and personally I'd keep the mix of rhinos and razorbacks for variety's sake. You've got a fast-moving list with good firepower now, and a nice range of units.

I think Lone Dragoon's list a little too anti-horde (but then I'm not up on the current trends). You want some good tank-busting and anti-MEQ firepower, and I think you have that.

In other words I like the list and would be interested in hearing how it does
   
Made in us
Speedy Swiftclaw Biker





Los Angeles

I like the appended list much more than the first one. Biker captains are awesome but I like to run mine with artificer armor for a little more safety but that is kind of a personal choice issue. I am always fearful of losing my characters to small arms fire/chainswords before they can get stuck in for a round or two. The captain on a bike with artificer armor is a major tarpit in CC.

John W
Salamanders 38/12/10 (current Army)
Chaos Marines 15/6/8
Space Marines 23/14/18 (Retired/Sold)
Fantasy
Daemons 10/1/3 (Retired/Sold)  
   
 
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