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Howdy all! I've had some time to think about a new army and looked at the book the Bret's have really peaked my interest since they seem like one of the few armies with a 5th/6th Ed. book that can still give a lot armies out there a run for their money. Not to mention they'll be getting a new army book (hopefully soon) and I can bet they'll be packing quite a punch. Lastly, they're an awesome and epic army to field when painted well (which I intend to do).

'Nuff exagerating, here's the list. Constructive criticism welcome!

LORD

Lord - 259
w/ Grail Shield, Mantle of Damsel, Virtue of Discipline, Morning Star of Fracasse, Warhorse, Grail Vow

HEROES

Damsel - 196
w/ Warhorse, 2x Dispel Scrolls, lvl 2

Paladin - 196
w/ BSB, Banner of the Lady, Lance, Shield, Warhorse, Grail Vow, Virtue of Duty

CORE

23x Peasant Bowmen - 161
w/ Skirmish

22 Peasant Bowmen - 132

9x Knights Realm - 265
w/ Command, War Banner

9x Knights Realm - 240
w/ Command

9x Knights Realms - 240
w/ Command

SPECIAL

5x Pegasus Knights - 305
w/ Command

6x Grail Knights - 285
w/ Command, Conqueror's Tapestry

TOTAL - 2246

Slapping the Lord, Damsel, Paladin BSB all in the Grail Knight unit with a hammer unit of KoR about 4" to the flank ready to strike home. Units of KoR will slam into flanks only hit a block unit in the face if it gets support from Pegasus unit or another KoR, otherwise I plan to move around enemy units to disrupt their battle line. The big unit of Skirmish bowmen will sit idle amidst my own line and proceed to pick off flying march blockers, fast cav, or focus fire with my other bowmen unit who in turn will be trying to do the same.

There's a lot I don't like about this list and a lot can take it apart relatively easily. Things like magic heavy armies or dragons can destroy this list since I have almost nothing to stop it (but then again this is fantasy, if a players wants to dominate in one particular phase they can). Overall I'd rate this army list a 5 outta 10; it'd be fun to play but I'm not sure how well it would really do.

Any advice is greatly appreciated! I have no idea how to properly field and play a Bretonnian army.

Get ready for 2 cannons to eat your hammer in 2 turns.

Never put all your eggs in one basket in this game, there are far too many counters out there.

Also 1 unit of bowmen is already too many, 2 is just a waste of points.

pegasus knights don't need a command, prolonged fights against large blocks is not what they are for.

Drop all your bowmen and take Knights Errant instead. If you can, make points for a trebuchet as well.

Don't know about dropping *all* the bowmen. They help give you something to shoot down annoying redirectors and fast cav so that your lances don't have to get pulled around.

Nothing more annoying than a couple 30 point units of dogs sending your heroes rocketing off to parts unknown.

RZ

I say keep 20 skirmishing bowmen, but exchange the other archers for an errants unit. I've fought the peasant blob recently and it's pretty cool, and provides a whole hell of missile fire for light cav trying to do stuff. Figure the main downside is its susceptibility to auto-panic spells and effects, but orbit near a knight unit I suppose and get lucky?

And errants I've also fought quite a bit of late. In a world of fear & terror, some ItP on the charge never hurts.

- Salvage

I am with you about not knowing a lot about Bretonnian armies. What I have heard is that Grail Knights are a magnet for shooting. Putting all your eggs into one basket means the opponent doesn't have to focus on anything else. One level 2 damsel is not going to accomplish much, so I would drop her down to a level 1. The bowmen are too large, if you want to take a lot, I would say 3x10 of skirmishing bowmen would be fine. Drop the stadard bearer and one pegasus knight from that unit too. They are there mainly to take out war machine and other harassing units, or for a possible flank charge when needed, the standard bearer should not be needed and getting all five knights into combat is pretty much impossible. You could also drop one KoR from each unit to put your characters into those units instead and also drop their grail vows. With all those extra points you could pick up another unit of knights and a barebones paladin I think.

Those are my thoughts, but remember I am nowhere near an expert.

Boogey, I think you can only take one unit of skirmishing archers per army. The damsel advice is good though.

RZ

Oops. Thanks for the catch Zeke. Well that would save you another 20 points to get some magic for that other paladin. Maybe you could even drop another pegasus knight and put that last paladin on a pegasus.

First, Bretonnia really does live and die on its characters. Use all the slots available to you whenever possible.

Your lord build does a little bit of several things - defense, character killing, and unit support - and doesn't do any of them really well. Specialization would pay off better here.

The damsel, as has been mentioned, is just a scroll caddy. The level upgrade is a waste. And be forewarned, her MR is pretty much useless for protecting the unit anymore. The new rulings say that non-targeted spells - including template spells - ignore MR.

Your BSB, on the other hand, looks good. He is specialized to add to his unit's SCR and he does it well. The only thing I would tell you is drop the Grail Vow, because the Grail Knights shouldn't need him. They win by killing, not beating them on SCR.

20ish skirmish bowmen may be a bit large, but still good They can move up, shoot, and screen as effectively as anything else on the Bret list. The other unit is iffy. You can use them to try and hold your deployment zone for board quarters, but as far as actively supporting your knigts they might not do so well. A trebuchet might be a better choice than the static bowmen, and cheaper too.

I'm torn on your KoTR units. It is nice to have three large blocks like that, but I'd make them 8 strong and put a character in each one. The BSB can go with the Warbanner unit and now you have a good block-breaker. Just don't accidentally hit a Stubborn or Unbreakable unit with it, they will just hold and grind you down.

The other two might be too large for the job, which is handling other stuff while the blockbreaker does its thing. 6 strong would work just fine. And you need screening elements for the block breaker which can come out of those points.

Knights-Errant are invaluable in a Fear-laden game environment. Being ItP on the charge means that they can charge anything reliably, even Terror-causers. 6 of them naked costs 120 points, half the price of one of your KoTR blocks, and is more manueverable. For another 39 points, give them the Errantry Banner and they hit even harder.

A unit of mounted Yeomen can help by flanking and charge-redirecting. It's always nice to get a flank charge when that big killer unit goes astray chasing after a minimum-sized unit of Yeomen. And at 75 points, you don't mind so much if you loose them in the process. If special slots are scarce, 5 Knights-Errant naked can do much the same job for 100 points.

As has been mentioned, don't bother with command on Pegasus Knights. They win by flanking and killing, not SCR, and you have better uses for those 30 points.

It's hard to agrue with Grail Knights, and the bigger the better - unless you are fighting a strong shooting army. If your General is going there, cut them down to 5. And I would give serious thought to the Banner of Chalons or the Banner of Defense to keep the other side from just shooting them up, rather than the Conquerer's Tapestry.


Last but not least, if someone brings a Dragon or other Big Scary Monster to the field, you are going to have a big problem. Nothing in your force is set up to handle one. Nothing at all. A Lord on Pegasus with Virtue of Heroism is a good start, or a good unit of Knights Errant (who won't be intimidated by it), or even a trebuchet to combine fire with the bowmen could do it.

First, thanks for all the feedback peeps. I really appreciate it.

I'm gonna do some serious revamping and come up with an edited list here in a bit when I'm not nose deep in briefs to read.

I know already I'll be dropping the second unit of bowmen and reduce the skirmish one to probably 14-16'ish (I'll play with these points) as well as the command on the Pegasus knights, a unit of KoR, and some other tid bits.

Secondly, it seems the trebuchet has been advised at least twice now. Its a 90 point "stone thrower" but I've never had a war machine utilizing ranged guesses for targeting. My point is, is it really worth it?

As far as paint job, I was thinking of doing a unified color scheme but make the models look more realistic. I'm gonna pick up the battalion this weekend and will post my first unit within the week.

Actually the store I go to has a Bretonnian army that is painted with a universal theme and I think it looks great.

For painting brets, I recommend a cohesive color scheme as it will keep you from losing focus.

What I did for mine was use the same 3 colors( bone, blue and teal) and gave each unit a certain combination of them i.e. bone barding with blue/teal shields on one, blue barding with bone/teal shields on another. And I did this with the riders as well. It distinguished units from each other without losing theme.

I also recommend an airbrush for Bretonnian barding unless you have really smooth brush work. Even then, just the prospect of painting some 70 horses is always daunting.

How the heck did I wind up with a double-post? I coulda sworn it wasn't like this yesterday!

The Trebuchet is absolutely worth the 90 points. One pin-hole on a chariot is priceless - if nothing more than by forcing your opponent to completely rethink his plan.

Having all your characters in with the grail knights is akin to putting a big neon sign over them saying "send all magic and missiles here". While it does mean that everything else will go unscathed for the first turn (or two), it also means that your characters and grail knights will not last past turn two.

I would drop at least one of the KotR units and exchange for Knights Errant. I typically put my Lord in with knights errant (it ensures that they won't wuss out when charging a monster) and either give him the virtue of heroism, or the sword of heroes. Couple that with the errantry banner, and you have a virtual monster killer unit on the loose.

I would turn the 22 bowmen, plus 3 KotR, plus 2 pegasus knights into a unit of mounted yeoman plus a unit of (6) knights errant - good for flank charges and war machines.

Give your remaining KotR the warbanner. +1 CR is priceless sometimes.

I'd keep the command on the pegs, and give the skirmishers a musician. maybe drop them down to 15-18.

Finally made a revised list this morning. Thanks for the input folks!

LORD

Lord - 249
w/ Grail Shield, Mantle Damsel, Sword Heroes, Warhorse, Grail Vow

HEROES

Damsel - 130
w/ Warhorse, 2x Dispel Scrolls

Paladin - 196
w/ BSB, Banner Lady, Lance, Shield, Warhorse, Grail Vow, Virtue of Duty

Paladin - 160
w/ Morning Star Fracasse, Armour Agilulf, Pegasus

CORE

16x P. Bowmen - 117
w/ Skirmish, Musician

9x Knights Realm - 265
w/ Command, War Banner

8x Knights Errant - 181
w/ Command

SPECIAL

5x Mounted Yeomen - 82
w/ Musician

3x Pegasus Knights - 165

Grail Relique - 253
w/ +15 Pilgrims

RARE

Trebuchet - 90

8x Grail Knights - 359
w/ Command, Conqueror's Tapestry


Notes:

I'm still very concerned to play against armies that utilize fliers or tons of magic, God help me if they have both! I don't feel very comfortable about the serious lack of magic defense as well.

Where should I put my Damsel? If I stick her out on her own she's gonna get fried first turn, unless I stick her way in my backfield with my Trebuchet.

The idea of a Grail Relique has peaked my interest both for modeling (mod up some Flagellants) and in game use. I think having at least one block unit with decent unit strength and Stubborn will be essential for one of my units of Knights or Pegasus to slam into a flank.

Lemme know what you guys think.

***I have tried my hand at a few different pallets for color scheme and consider myself a solid painter (Take a look at my CSM and BFG stuff ). I'm thinking of actually doing these soldiers 70% realistic colors with prominent shades of grey, brown, and beige for metal, leather, and tunics. My main colors will probably be red or white (maybe both!).

Loving the variety, I find that alone often makes for a good, interesting game

The size of that grail unit made me go WHOA and would instantly draw my attention on the battlefield, but it's certainly a tank. On the damsel, I'd think nestling her in the middle of any of those lances (can she join the grail?) to give them MR & US and keep her safe would be the move to make.

- Salvage

So long as no characters go with the Grail Knights, they should do okay. Someone who is not experienced vs. Brets might ignore them to shoot at the characters, in which case they will crush everything they face. If not, then hopefully he will split his fire against everything, and at least some of most of it should make it.

But then I see you've put Grail Vows on your lord and BSB, so I suppose you are still thinking in that direction. I don't think it will work, those two in the Grail Knights are going to get shot out in very short order against any list with a reasonable amount of shooting and/or magic.

Vs. fliers, your best defense is to hang the skirmish archers back behind your knights, preferably with LOS to the knight's flanks. Then any flier that moves to flank (or goes after the trebuchet) has a decent chance of turning into a pincushion. Being skirmishers, after all, means they have 360 degree vision and can shoot at stuff behind them, and that alone might keep the fliers from being used as agressively as they could be. And if not, well, at least the archers should be able to put a few wounds on them.

Vs. high-power magic (like high-magic Demons or Dark Elves)... Brets are pretty well screwed. Competition lists sometimes have 2 or even 3 scroll caddies, and still have a hard time handling high-magic lists. Brets just don't do well in the magic phase, no matter how hard we try.

So we have to work all the harder in manuever and CC (since our shooting is nothing to write home about either) to make up for it.

Your lord looks more like a monster-hunter now. He really could use the Virtue of Herosim (for Killing Blow vs. everything) and/or the Guilded Curiass (for Regen). And the peggy Paladin looks like a proper duelist now, have the two of them team up to hunt characters on monsters!