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One thing I've noticed reading here is that people don't all run open or closed games. What's the standard in your area? It's interesting, since it impacts what units are effective and colors each persons advice in the Tactics and Army List forums. Here in Austin, the standard is definitely for open lists. Closed are the rare exception.

What are your thoughts on the impact of one vs. the other? As a Dwarf player, it has give and take. If I ran a shooting list, then an open list helps to determine what needs to be shot (i.e. If I know a unit as a regen banner, then I'll make sure to send flaming shots that way). On the other hand, when I run a combat list, everyone knows exactly what my heroes are carrying and what runic banners I'm sporting. Given that almost everyone else is more maneuverable it means that opponents can pick and choose their combats without any surprises.

A closed list would help to some degree- I could skimp on a Dwarf Lord, and still be threatening enough to discourage a charge from most things. A thane with immunity to killing blow and a great armor save might actually get to fight something that thought he might be softer than that.

Thoughts?

RZ

We play closed, but reveal all mundane equipment before the game, and wizard levels. Though sometimes it's easy to guess what they have (especially when you take a single L1 wizard.)

I was suprised by this, too, because from reading the rules alone, I thought everyone would play closed lists! By closed I mean, simply not revealing magic items (but revealing everything else).

So I printed out a bunch of lists and covered up the magic items in black sharpie

My last opponent, who played VC, looked shocked that I had done this... I'd just assumed he was going to do the same! I kind of need a closed list, otherwise people will know about my Moonstone of the Hidden Way

For fantasy, I have almost always played closed lists. 'Ard boyz is the only exception to this. Fantasy is supposed to be full of senaky surprises. What is the sense of bringing; assassins, or fanatics or the like if you have to tell you foe where they are hiding. THat doesn't make sense to me. And what about magic items that hide items or reveal them. No point to those either if the list is open. No, I always play that you tell your foe the things they can see. Equipment, command models, wizard levels and the like. I reveal what spells my casters have, because if I recall, it says the you should in the rules. But magic items and hidden stuff is declared when you use it. Just my 2 cents. It is one of the reasons I like fantasy so much. You never know what may be lurking in that Dark elf unit, or what that shining sword that hero is wielding might do to you.

Definitely closed lists in Fantasy. Obviously if it's something you can see both on the mini and on the theoretical battlefield that's one thing, such as command models and mundane equipment. Magical items, assassins, fanatics, etc. are all hidden goodies that unless you were that army's general you probably wouldn't see it coming until you got hit with it on the battlefield.

Oddly enough this is in stark contrast to my view of 40k games which are almost always open list and you can clearly ask what a unit has or does and expect an honest answer (around these parts, at least).

I have to side with the majority here and say closed lists for fantasy. Now most of my games have been somewhat on the open side as I am still learning, but even then somethings remain hidden, I understand that I need to assume there are fanatics in that block of night goblins.

I just keep imagining the scene in "Braveheart" when they meet in the middle of the battle field. Open list commentary - Wallace - "Oh by the way, we are carrying sharpened stakes twice as long as a man, I know, I know some men are longer than others, but if you could still charge your calavary at us, I would greatly appreciate it." Now I understand that in our table top game our models should be represented with those weapons, but if your army has a special trick, then revealing it before hand would just ruin the fluff of the game. Opposing forces should not know what is in store for them, they should expect everything and fight for their lives. At least that is my take on the game.

Closed list, definitely.

Otherwise, what is the point of hidden deployment rules for Goblin Fanatics, Dark Elf and Skaven Assassins, etc?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

RiTides wrote:I was suprised by this, too, because from reading the rules alone, I thought everyone would play closed lists! By closed I mean, simply not revealing magic items (but revealing everything else).

So I printed out a bunch of lists and covered up the magic items in black sharpie

My last opponent, who played VC, looked shocked that I had done this... I'd just assumed he was going to do the same! I kind of need a closed list, otherwise people will know about my Moonstone of the Hidden Way

Make sure to 'mark out' out some things that don't actually exist. Otherwise it's not hard to guess where there are surprises waiting, and what is exactly what it seems to be.

Interesting. To be clear, with open lists here, locations of assassins are still secret (though I don't know about fanatics, as I've not run in to them yet).

Clearly, the game is written with closed lists in mind, but that's a rarity in these parts.

RZ