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Due to the considerable cost of army-building, I've been a righteous wreck these last few weeks trying to figure out which army to begin playing with to get up and rolling. I originally considered Eldar, created an army list, and even bought a small amount of models, but reading online and watching games at my LGS made me realize that there seems to be three rules to the Eldar.

1) Use Jetbikes. If you dont like jetbikes, use a lot of Wave Serpents.
2) Using Eldrad gives you a chance to win a game.
3) Using Eldrad is considered cheap, and therefore you will not find a game to win.

The units I like the most in the Eldar model base.. .the Wraithguards, Wraithlords, and Rangers, seem to be generally thought of as B or C list units. Only the farseer and warlocks are considered great units for fielding among the models I care for, and as much as I liked the thoughts of D-cannons and weapon platforms I'm told Eldar artillery is as horrible as it gets.


So what should I do?

I wanted Eldar because they seem tricksy (Use of psyker powers) and shooty. (In my builds my only melee units were WL's equipped with wraith swords and my Farseer Council.) I like that sort of thing, but if they lose every game against someone who isnt terrible because half of their unit list is bad/overpriced/underwhelming and I didnt take the cookie cutter list then which direction should I look?

I like long range suppression and important movement consideration. I like using powers that give an edge if used correctly. I dont care if the models are particularly boring or the race is considered newbie friendly or not. I dont mind having a unit or so of melee if necessary but I dont like armies that are straight face punchers. I just want an army that has more to do with thinking about what you are doing than "I get to roll 500 dice" or "Rush to cc and win!"

I'm also looking at the 1500-2000 point range.

I dont care if I'm fielding 15 models or 150. I just want an army that suits me, and I havent been able to read through all 11 or so codex's yet.

Grey Knights are a really fun army to play and paint with.

There is alot of thinking required and precise, cold and calculated moves. The Dakka article is a great lecture on GK tactics.

Many of the GK rules no longer apply, but the ones that are still useful are powerful if used correctly.

Another bonus is that many opponents underestimate what GKs can do. and then they get sloppy and then realize they just lost to the "worst" army in 40K.

DH psychic powers are limited now, but potentially game winning. Hammerhand is essentially 2 Powerfists at normal inititive. The other bonus is your army will be for the most part totally immune to enemy psychic attacks. and you're fearless to boot.

While the individual models are expensive you don't have to by as many. a $55 box of GK terminators can with upgrades be 450ish points. and a full 10 man PAGK squad can be 350 points or thereabout.

Grey Knights combine Shooty and Choppy in many of the same units. Shrouding if taken full advantage of can absolutly infuriate shooty opponents. and then when they get closer the realize that WS5 Str6 attacks hurt.


GKs have a highly asthetic look and are extreamly pleasing to look at.

Well you have a choice of two looking at your criteria, Eldar as you have explained and IG, Psyker Battle Squads and HQ's can be very nasty if used correctly, long range suppression, your LR's and artillery (these can be very nice and look imposing especially of you take FW artillery etc as it can be rather rare to see it), and important movement consideration, WTF to do with your infantry!

I would recommend IG but with GK allies as Grey Templar pointed out above.


Good Luck!!

Ummm you can make a very effective list using Wraithguard, Wraithlords, Eldrad, and Harlies. Greg Sparks took Best General at the Conquest NW Indy GT, even with a 10 point deduction to his score due to not paininting his army.

Here is a picture:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/274398.page#1265604

Are the Basilisks useful in the tabletop? They were pretty awesome in DoW, but I know these are too different monsters.

Basilisks are alright, it's just that the Guard have better options for the points and HS slots.

I would suggest tau. they require precise placing to be effective, and have some must have models like broadsides (72' range and str 10 ap 1? What's not to like?) and pathfinders. Even their close combat men, the kroot, need to be in a forest to be most effective.

That's just my opinion.

Sounds like someone should come to the dark side!

Play Dark Eldar. We have over whelming firepower, fast movement, a couple specialized CC units, and paper thin armor on everything!

If you don't play smart you lose.

As a bonus you can convert the eldar you already have and thus save some money.

hmmm, I think I'll just go off of this statement: "I like long range suppression and important movement consideration. I like using powers that give an edge if used correctly."

With this in mind I would suggest Sisters of Battle. Their Immolators are great (arguably greatest) long-distance suppression. They have many deadly and interesting units like arco-flaggelants and Penitence Engines (Like Jesus crusified on a Matrix-style mech with ork CC weapons...on crack). The basic sister is T3 and not a match for a space marine but they have incredible faith abilities and their power armour is actually fun to paint with its ridges and detail(I'm looking at you space marines!). Who doesn't dream of owning dual flamer pistols?

Another option (and cheaper then the all-metal sisters) would actually be the new Tyranids. Taking a Swarmlord and a balanced force and winning takes a lot of strategic thinking, allows to to play with deep-strike and flanking, and gives you supporting powers which aren't game-changing but can turn the tide.

I personally wouldn't start 'Nids right now because the number of Trygons I face is just annoying. Damn impulsive kids. Their big bugs are just another pile of Fire-Dragoned slag to me

Daemons. They are always fun to play, super low model count army, you can build whatever kind of specialist army you want, and playing this army will add considerably to your attractiveness to the opposite sex.

i'd say go with the tau. they have a bunch of units that require tight coordination to use effectively and are the most tactical of any army that i've played. you'll almost never be accused of playing an overpowered army but, if you play your cards right, can still win a fair amount of games.

Thunderfrog wrote:

1) Use Jetbikes. If you dont like jetbikes, use a lot of Wave Serpents.
2) Using Eldrad gives you a chance to win a game.
3) Using Eldrad is considered cheap, and therefore you will not find a game to win.

Welcome to "Meta" It looks like you are reading old "Meta". In 4th Edition this was more true than it is now. Eldar have a very strong codex, if it is a bit out of date. They have some builds with expensive, fragile units that require careful playing in order to make them competitive. They can be unforgiving. They DO have a Lot of synergy.

Read Blackmoor's battle reports on this site, he wins repeatedly at high-caliber events, against hard armys. with an eldar army that is "unconventional".

Thunderfrog wrote:
So what should I do?

Buy what you like, play some games, and adjust. Iyanden can be tough.

Thunderfrog wrote:
I wanted Eldar because they seem tricksy (Use of psyker powers) and shooty. (In my builds my only melee units were WL's equipped with wraith swords and my Farseer Council.)

Seer councils mounted in a Serpent / Falcon are Hard as Nails. I'd recommend tooling your WL's with magnets. So you can swap them to Bright-lances when you decide you want more anti-tank.

Thunderfrog wrote:
I like that sort of thing, but if they lose every game against someone who isnt terrible because half of their unit list is bad/overpriced/underwhelming and I didnt take the cookie cutter list then which direction should I look?

Adapt and overcome. There are a Large number of very useful tools in the Eldar codex. Very few are horribly priced.

Thunderfrog wrote:
I like long range suppression and important movement consideration. I like using powers that give an edge if used correctly. I dont care if the models are particularly boring or the race is considered newbie friendly or not. I dont mind having a unit or so of melee if necessary but I dont like armies that are straight face punchers. I just want an army that has more to do with thinking about what you are doing than "I get to roll 500 dice" or "Rush to cc and win!"

I'm also looking at the 1500-2000 point range.

I dont care if I'm fielding 15 models or 150. I just want an army that suits me, and I havent been able to read through all 11 or so codex's yet.

Eldar don't have the numbers to bum-rush Orks or the Shooting to out-shoot guard. they have good transports, great range, and the ability to boost the performance of one or two units a round. You have to play a good movement game and make good generalship decisions regarding the usage of psychic powers to compete. Not "newbie" friendly, but highly rewarding.

Personally I would suggest IG as they are a shooty army. You can be very tactical with your leaders and commissar abilities etc and can also with your imperial guard orders. The psyker powers can also be used to be a bit sneaky, but I would not rely on them.

Thanks everyone for the replies.

After reading this I have a little more faith in my eldar, now I just have to find a way to make Wraithguards, Wraithlords, and Pathfinders effective.

Someone mentioned teaming them with Harlequins, but I dont know if they think I should use them with transports in a 5 man squad or in footslogging 10 man groups with a spiritseer.

Also very interesting to me seems to be..

Tau for their shooty firewarriors and bombarding broadsides..

IG for their customization and tactics.

Nids for their customization, though a lot of people have complained their Carnifex is useless. However, only hearing of one bad unit is better than a lot of other armies.

Thanks everyone for your help. I feel a little better about making a choice now.