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As the title says this is my first list so recomendations and comments would be appreciated.

HQ

Emperor's Champion with Accept Any Challenge (140)

Elite

Sword Brethren Terminator Assault Squad - 4 w/Twin Lightning Claws and 2 w/Storm Shields and Thunder Hammers, all with Furious Charge (258)
-Uses Land Raider Crusader (see below)

Troops

Crusader Squad #1 - 6 Initiates and 2 Neophytes w/CCWs and BPs, w/Power Fist and Meltagun (141)
-Uses Rhino w/Smoke Launchers (53)

Crusader Squad #2 - 6 Initiates and 2 Neophytes w/CCWs and BPs, w/Power Fist and Meltagun (141)
-Uses Rhino w/Smoke Launchers (53)

Fast Attack
2 land speeder typhoons w/heavy bolters (140)
1 land speeder w/heavy bolter (50)

Heavy Support

-Land Raider Crusader w/Smoke Launchers (265)

-2 Predator annihilators with bolter sponsons (260)

Grand Total: 1501

OK, where to begin.

First off, Crusader squads should never, ever, ever be in Rhinos. Either in a Crusader or on foot. BT Rhinos are overpriced and stop you from doing what makes your army different: Righteous Zeal.

You only have two, small scoring units which means they will be easily destroyed and then you can't win 2/3's of your games.

The terminators are good, but go all LC's and just 1 T.Hammer. Having Furious Assault and rerolls to wound and hit means these guys just obliterate everything in their path, maximize that and minimize your crappy storm shields. The T.Hammer is only there in case you get into combat with a Dread or WL or something like that. At this points level though, drop two of them and just take a 5 man squad.

DO not take Typhoon speeders with BT, they suck. In fact, drop all the speeders unless they have a MM.

Take all las cannon preds as you only pay 145 for them. Take advantage of those cheap, great killing machines as your army needs the long range punch.

You need more scoring units or make the units you hav, bigger.

A giant Crusader squad is hell on wheels. They get a turn two charge on foot if anything shoots at them and they crush almost any units in assault. Take advantage of that.

So drop the speeders, two terminators and the rhinos and take those big squads on foot and max them out, ram them right down your opponent's throat. Add in a chaplain with cynobytes to lead one of the squads and now you have a solid list.

alright atempt number 2. tell me what you think

HQ

Emperor's Champion with Accept Any Challenge (140)
Reclusiarch with 3 cenobyte servitors (125)

Elite

Sword Brethren Terminator Assault Squad - 5 w/Twin Lightning Claws all with Furious Charge (215)
-Uses Land Raider Crusader (see below)

Troops

Crusader Squad #1 - 6 Initiates and 4 Neophytes w/CCWs and BPs, w/Power Fist and Meltagun (161)

Crusader Squad #2 - 6 Initiates and 4 Neophytes w/CCWs and BPs, w/Power Fist and Meltagun (161)

Crusader Squad #3 - 6 Initiates and 2 Neophytes w/CCWs and BPs, w/Power Fist and Meltagun (141)


Heavy Support

-Land Raider Crusader w/Smoke Launchers (265)

-2 Predator annihilators with las sponsons (290)

Grand Total: 1498

Combine those three squads into two so that they have more endurance.

They key to surviving with BT squads is by having a squad that is either too big to be killed in one shooting phase, or inside a LRC.

Drop the third squad for 5 more initiates and 6 more neophytes, that lets you pump those squads up to near max size.

If they are too small, the enemy can destroy them all in one go, thereby negating Righteous Zeal.

The Max Size squad should have the CHappy so they alwasy run where you want them and they run full speed. You may even want to put both characters in the bigger squad, which means the small squad may get ignored.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Now that I think about it, drop one of the Predators to get both squads up to max size, that way you have two big squads that are assured of crossing the table. Like this:

EC
Chappy with 3 cynobytes

LC termies with furious assault
LRC

Crusader Squad
10 Initiates, 10 Neophytes, Fist, M.Gun

Crusader Squad
10 Initiates, 10 Neophytes, Fist, M.Gun

Predator

That leaves 40 extra points, so you can toss an extra termie into the Sword Brethren squad.

Now your troops choices are much, much more survivable and will get across the board. Plus the added distraction of the lawnmower squad in the LRC means that your opponent has to deal with that too.

The Pred gives you long range punch.

Big walking crusader squads works good in 2008.

But it is 2010 now.

Hahahahaha, please!

They work BETTER now! They sucked in 4th ed!

They can run. That alone makes them amazing.

They get rerolls to hit, all the time.

They obliterate other horde armies, they are fast enough to catch mech armies.

They can go 21" in one turn.

Shoot them and they are on you quicker, don't shoot them and you get stuffed.

My BT list obliterates most people to the point where it isn't fun to play.

If you can't win games with 20 man squads then you are not very good at the game, they are overpowered in this edition.

You have not got my viewpoint.

They are perfect in the first months after release of 5th.

Then they suck when people realized the importance of transport vehicles.

To sacrifice small units to you. Then you stay at the middle of the table.

What are you talking about?

The big squads move FASTER than a Rhino and any small unit that hits them gives them EXTRA movement.

Maybe we are not communicating well here, or I am missing your point?

A Crusader squad with Chappy and 3 cynobytes is one of the fastest units in the game, unless you don't shoot it, which is a win for the BT player.

If your enemy throws a small unit at you, you crush it in combat and then consolidate towards your next victim.

They destroy tanks, MC's and other squads. Mine just slaughter their way across the board. The only way they get destroyed is if the other player can focus fire his whole army on one squad and kill all of them in one turn, other wise they just run forward 4 to 9" and get a charge next turn.

With a Chaplain they run at the units you choose, that is why they are essential to foot BT's.

Perhaps you have had different experiences with them than I have, but for me, they are just over the top, the destroy multiple enemy units at a time.

We has no different opinions about that they move faster.

But only faster moving make no sense.

You want to meet your enemy in close combat.

Does it mean that your enemy afraid that happen?No.

Your enemy could also move several units towards you. You crush them--the low-value units--at your own turn.

Your own turn wasted in that way.Then your enemy has another whole turn to shoot you, with the main firepower standing in other side of table.

OK, well that is a good point, but you can always go around the screening units, or shoot them, or tank shock them out of the way with the crusader squad.

And, you have three highly threatening squads, it would be very difficult to stop them all.

What you are talking now is tactics though, and not all armies have throw away units to feed you. And once you take into account all of the movement involved with assault and consolidation, the units still move very, very fast.

The only thing i worry about is not enough armor on the table. 2 tanks just dont cut it anymore. everyone where i play is either ig tanks or eldar brightlances. Troops just dont cut it. Any suggestions? what is your black templar list Reecius?

I play 2,000 points, so it is a bit different.

Here is my list at 2K

HQ
Emperor's Champion Accept Any Challenge 1 150
Chaplain T.Honors, L.Claws, Frags, Cynobytes x3 1 186
Chaplain T.Honors, L.Claws, Frags, Cynobytes x3 1 186

Troops
Crusader Squad Fist, M.Gun, Frags 20 305
Crusader Squad Fist, M.Gun, Frags 20 305
Crusader Squad Fist, M.Gun, Frags 14 239
Land Raider Crusader Smoke 1 268

Elites
Attack Bike M.Melta 1 65

Fast Attack

Heavy Support
Predator Annihilator L.Cannon Sponsons, Smoke 1 148
Predator Annihilator L.Cannon Sponsons, Smoke 1 148

Totals 61 2000



That list gives you more armor, but if you play in an anti tank heavy environment then you may want to meta game your opponents and go infantry horde, which works well with BT's. You can put down nearly four full crusader squads at that points level with character support, and just bum rush the other guy, although that may not be too much fun to play all the time.

You may not have the models to do that, but running a bunch of maximum crusader squads is incredibly hard to stop unless you are playing against IG with 3 Executioners (or something similar to that). Even then though, it is not easy to stop. As soon as your infantry hit their tanks, they will get smoked.

Hmm, well, if you play against lots of lances you could try and hit critical mass my shoving in 3 LRC's with crusader squads inside and give them blessed hulls.

Again, you may not have the models for it, but you could take just three LRC's, load them with crusader squads and the EC and with old smoke, and blessed hulls, you will be really hard to stop to a shooting army.

Yea I could do that also. In my 2000 point list i want to have 2 land raiders. both packing a 5 man squad of termies. At that point i wont really need the extra predator I don't think. Plus i am not a big bike or drop pod fan. I played the new list I made with a full crusader squad. They moved very fast and the crusader was a big distraction for the enemy. With blessed hulls against eldar they really don't stand a chance. By the time the termies unloaded my crusader squads were right behind them ready to give some support. Thanks for all the help Reecius

No worries brotha, glad I could be of assistance.

Wow, nice to see the love for BT . Still kickin'!!

They rock in 5th ed, I am seriously surprised I don't see them more often. The changes to the core rules gave them a tremendous boost.

Well, I guess they're not the "shiney new army" etc etc