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I think this is covered in a FAQ somewhere, but I couldn't find it in either WHFB FAQ or the WoC FAQ (which I thought it might be for armor of damnation). Perhaps the Dark Elf FAQ? Haven't checked there yet ...

Anyway, I want to take the rival hide talisman for my skaven dudes, but I can't recall how this interacts with units that reroll missed to hit rolls (hatred, but others as well). One way to do it, you could first determine how many successful hits the opposing model makes, which means rerolling misses, etc. Then after the successful hits are amassed, the rival hide (armor of damnation, etc) kicks in and those successful hits must be rerolled - without the further benefit of hatred, etc. However without a FAQ to reference I don't think I have any precedence to base this on, besides that it makes the most of the rival hide

I can see a gentlemanly way to handle it involving a dice off for which kicks in first, rival hide or rerolling misses. If rival hide is first, then the enemy rolls their attaks then rerolls any successes, and ends up with a smallish pile of hits and a largish pile of misses. Then hatred kicks in and those misses are rerolled, but will not have to be rolled again thanks to the rival hide. If the dice off went the other way, then we would get the above, where hatred determines successes and then rival hide forces those to be rerolled.

Frankly I do lean towards the 'determine successes by rerolling misses, then reroll those successes' as being a bit more logically appropriate ... Or is there a ruling for handling this sort of thing?

- Salvage

If there is something that makes one unit reroll misses, and another effect that makes them reroll hits then effectively, they reroll all there dice.

As you can never reroll a reroll, your suggestion can't work. (b/c if they miss, reroll, then hit, you want to make them reroll this hit)

There is no 'which one first' problem, they both go at once and all hits are rerolled, and all misses rerolled. (Or, you just agree that they cancel eachother out as the odds are the same and just toss the dice once)

I have read something close to that in a FAQ, either WE, DE, or dwarfs since those are the armies I play. It basically said that the player rolls to hit whatever dice come up as hits are the ones you can make him reroll and all the ones that miss are the ones he gets to reroll. I believe this FAQ was about two different magic items though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It was the WE FAQ and it was about armor that made you reroll hits and a weapon that let you reroll misses. It reminded you that you can never reroll a reroll.

He's right, it's in the Wood Elf FAQ, though for some reason it's not letting me copy & paste right now:

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1540040_Wood_Elves_FAQ_2008-05_Edition.pdf

You can never reroll a reroll, so that is easy enough.

All the hits from the first roll - you reroll
All the misses from the first roll - you reroll

You end up rerolling *all* the dice, so you can either roll the dice, ignore them and pick the dice up and roll again OR simply roll the dice once and leave it at that. Either way is, mathematically, exactly the same.

Deminyn wrote:As you can never reroll a reroll, your suggestion can't work.

nosferatu1001 wrote:You can never reroll a reroll, so that is easy enough..

This did occur to me while I was posting, but I really could not remember if the FAQ stuck with it or suggested something else ...

... though apparently it was the WE FAQ and it's pretty clear on it. Thanks for locking this one down for me lads, good to know. I'd probably go with rerolling everything, or perhaps holding onto the rival hide for somebody who isn't rerolling things (like hydra, round 2 )

- Salvage