Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Ok, now that the deffrolla works against vehicles, what are good options for the bw's upgrades?

Red paint job becomes more important obviously.

Extra armor looks MUCH more attractive now.

Boarding planks are maybe a bit less needed?

Hard case might make sense for a nob wagon? Especially if a big mech is riding with them. Giving the force field a bit more protection might be a good choice?

Number of big shootas...this is probably going to depend on whether or not the deff rolla can be destroyed by a weapon destroyed result.

Grot riggers perhpas...if the deff rolla cant be destroyed.


Any other thoughts?


Sliggoth

Generally, you want to keep your BW's cheap. Obviously you want the Deffrolla. The ard case is a bad idea because it makes the BW no longer open topped so your units inside won't be able to charge out of it if it has moved. Red paint job is almost a must on all ork vehicles. Big shootas are not needed because most likely you BW will be charging full speed at your enemy so the big shootas won't be able to fire (assuming deff rolla cant be destroyed). You also don't want any other guns for the same reason. Grot riggers are good to deal with immobilised results. Armored plates are good because it gets rid of stunned results so your BW can keep moving. The rest of the upgrades are not useful because they don't work if the vehicle has moved 12" and most of the time you will.

You also don't want any other guns for the same reason

You don't want guns just to shoot, you want guns to live. A BW without a single gun = an immobilized BW. Grab a kannon and a couple rokkits for opportunity shots and extra survivability

I think you're going to find people taking battlewagons that can be loosely separated into two types
1. Transports (basically w/big shoota or two and deffrolla)
2. Fire Support (killkannon, hard case, etc)

Illumini wrote:

You also don't want any other guns for the same reason

You don't want guns just to shoot, you want guns to live. A BW without a single gun = an immobilized BW. Grab a kannon and a couple rokkits for opportunity shots and extra survivability

A kannon seems to be too expensive just so you won't be immobilized but I agree with having some cheap guns for this reason.

just get a bunch of big shootas, no more immobilized. i think you can get like 4.

warham113 wrote:

Illumini wrote:

You also don't want any other guns for the same reason

You don't want guns just to shoot, you want guns to live. A BW without a single gun = an immobilized BW. Grab a kannon and a couple rokkits for opportunity shots and extra survivability

A kannon seems to be too expensive just so you won't be immobilized but I agree with having some cheap guns for this reason.

Not the killkannon (or whatever it is named), just the standard 10pt kannon. (it is better than the rokkits for the same cost)

I like the idea of putting the big mek in a close wagon now. Post FAQ I'm considering taking one or two 'armor killer' BW:

Three nobz, one with PK: 85
dedicated wagon: deff rolla, 'ard case, 2 big shootas, armor plates, red paint, grot riggers 155:
total: 240

I'd run three open-topped deff rolla wagons to carry 60 boyz for assaults.

Guess I should expand on what my own thoguhts were a bit more.

Deff rollas are a given, really its just 15 points for the ability to really hurt armor, since the reroll on terrain checks is well worth doing anyways. So all BW get deffrollas.

For the cost red paint is good enough for any BW, small cost and its useful for any type of BW.

Since the BW is going to want to be able to pose a ram threat as well as a transport threat extra armor looks pretty much like a must have too.

Now.....a lot will depend on whether or not the rolla can be destroyed from a weapon destroyed result.

If the rolla cant be picked off then grot riggers become a good but...I think.

If the rolla cant be picked off, then the BW obviously needs some cheap weapons to be destroyed. How many tho, is one enough or is there a strong point to taking more?

If the rolla can be destroyed then grots are not important at all, and since the rolla will be picked off first...maybe no other weapons at all?

Atm Im kind of leaning to not using boarding planks at all, since the rolla will be better. If the rolla can be destroyed then perhaps planks make sense again.



My BW fleet is likely to be two open BW for burnas, then two hard tops for nob mobs. The nobs will each be joined by a big mek with force fields. Depending on the point size of the game there may or may not be 1-2 more bw....still up in the air here.


Sliggoth

Sliggoth wrote:Guess I should expand on what my own thoguhts were a bit more.

Deff rollas are a given, really its just 15 points for the ability to really hurt armor, since the reroll on terrain checks is well worth doing anyways. So all BW get deffrollas.

For the cost red paint is good enough for any BW, small cost and its useful for any type of BW.

Since the BW is going to want to be able to pose a ram threat as well as a transport threat extra armor looks pretty much like a must have too.

Now.....a lot will depend on whether or not the rolla can be destroyed from a weapon destroyed result.

If the rolla cant be picked off then grot riggers become a good but...I think.

If the rolla cant be picked off, then the BW obviously needs some cheap weapons to be destroyed. How many tho, is one enough or is there a strong point to taking more?

If the rolla can be destroyed then grots are not important at all, and since the rolla will be picked off first...maybe no other weapons at all?

Atm Im kind of leaning to not using boarding planks at all, since the rolla will be better. If the rolla can be destroyed then perhaps planks make sense again.



My BW fleet is likely to be two open BW for burnas, then two hard tops for nob mobs. The nobs will each be joined by a big mek with force fields. Depending on the point size of the game there may or may not be 1-2 more bw....still up in the air here.


Sliggoth

I don't think the rolla negates the point of having a boarding plank. Nothing in the codex or brb state that the melee attacks have to originate from the location of the plank. I think the plank would be added insurance by being able to toss those pf attacks at something not destroyed by the rolla.

Tankshocking/ramming shouldn't preclude the unit within from taking their swipes via the boarding plank. Plus, your deffrolla is not guaranteed to smash everything within 2", so you will still have targets. As far as upgrades go, I have my deffrolla wagons with the DR, armor plates, boarding plank, riggers, and a big shoota. I add in a kannon or grabbin' klaw optionally, and rarely go for the RPJ because I don't want to paint my wagons red, really. I know you don't *have* to paint them red for the upgrade, but it would seem unfluffy not to.

I played in a tournament last weekend and we found a rule that allows upgrades to be chosen as a weapons destroyed result, so deffrollas can be destroyed. I don't have the book with me but it was on the page with the vehicle damage table.

There has been a lot of debate over which vehicle upgrades can be destroyed with a weapon destroyed result. The rule allows upgrades that function as weapons to be destroyed...and the arguements then fly on what that means.

The discussion in ymdc has been vigorous and still seems to not be completely clarified, a lot of the posters still arent quite understanding that a vehicle doesnt have to be defined completely as a weapon so the debate on what function means has been muddied.


It would be nice to get this completely worked out before getting all my BWs built tho

It becomes rather important when one is deciding how many (if any) big shootas to add to the model.

If the deff rolla cant be destroyed then Im thinking two big shootas....if it can be destroyed then one for the big mek bw and none for the others.

Sliggoth