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Nowadays, it seems like plasma is the worst special weapon option. Plasma is used to kill things with 2+ and 3+ armor saves such as termis or oblits. However, I find that melta can do the job admirably plus melta has a whole list of other advantages against tanks. The main advantage of plasma is that its rapid fire so it can shoot 2 shots within 12". The downside is that it costs 1.5x more than a meltagun and its only S7 so it cant instant death most units unlike melta. Melta also never overheats. Also, most elite squads that you are trying to down will probably be 5 man squads so you dont exactly need that many shots.

This is my opinion, I would love to hear other people's viewpoints on the issue.

It really depends on what you want your units to do. In my Crimson Fists SM army (which is more of a static shooty one) the low range of the Meltaguns is a big turn off for me. I can use the Plasmagun WITH my Bolters. If I'm facing an enemy that is closing for assault, if they're in 12 inch range that means I'm getting assault next turn, and that's bad.

I take my AT on my Vehicles or in the form of missile launchers. If you're playing an army that wants to get more up close and personal then obviously meltas are the better choice (for all of the reasons you listed).

So in short, no it is not.

Gun-wise Plasma costs 50% more for 100% more shots or 100% more range. Giving the Plasma Gun to something that has Feel No Pain goes some distance to solving the Gets Hot! problem, but then you really shouldn't worry if the model carrying the Plasma Gun has Sv3-.

Melta Guns are nice, but they're just another tool that trades off some advantages for others. Same with Plasma Guns, Flamers, Grenade Launchers, and so on.

Plasma's are nice for using on avatars since he's immune to melta

I originally stuck hard to melta, but I've seen the usefulness of both. It really does depend though what the unit's job is. Sometimes I take one squad of plague marines with plasmas, and one with meltas. Reason being is just like eNvY said. If a unit is just sitting on an objective, having only 12" melta range can almost become a waste of a guy standing there.

No, it isn't.

Why?

1. Range. 24" Range means that it has a use outside of assault range. Or, conversely, if the enemy is footslogging at you (Iknorite?) it means you get 3 shots to the melta gun's one.

2. Rate of fire. Within 12" two shots at s7 are more effective than one shot at s8 against everything but vehicles. Even against av12 or lower, plasma is still equivalent to melta in the 6" to 12" range.

I will concede that melta is superior against medium size tryanids and Nob Bikers. Aside from those targets, I like plasma for taking on elites.

Also, 'gets hot' only really proves a threat to guard units with plasma weapons. Even then, it's worth it to get a more devastating attack off.

I will agree that plasma pistols are awful for their points.

However, the one thing that guarantees plasma will never 'die' is the Plasma Cannon. Let's see a melta weapon do what that baby does to elite infantry.

eNvY wrote:It really depends on what you want your units to do. In my Crimson Fists SM army (which is more of a static shooty one) the low range of the Meltaguns is a big turn off for me. I can use the Plasmagun WITH my Bolters. If I'm facing an enemy that is closing for assault, if they're in 12 inch range that means I'm getting assault next turn, and that's bad.

I take my AT on my Vehicles or in the form of missile launchers. If you're playing an army that wants to get more up close and personal then obviously meltas are the better choice (for all of the reasons you listed).

So in short, no it is not.

quoted for truth. also i play a similar Crimson Fist army and frankly its going pretty good using plasma

Short answer- it depends

Armies like marines where they're packing 1 per unit, the extra impact you get from the additional shot is pretty low. You do have a range advantage over meltas, but 5th ed isn't exactly the edition of long range shooting. It's an easy arguement with marines that meltas are a better choice in most cases.

IG is a vastly different story. When you can have 3-4 melta shots or 6-8 plasma shots the gulf between what the weapons can deal with gets far more dramatic. Also while a single S7 plasma shot at 24" from a marine squad is unlikely to drop a vehicle, 3-4 shots at 24" has good odds of at least getting an immobile. By no stretch of the imagination does this mean plasma can completely replace meltas, but against most marine-type targets and medium-light vehicles the masses of high S good AP can have a dramatic impact and in most cases fair notably better. In short, if you a CMD squad or Vet squad, you can get more than enough mileage out of plasmas over meltas to justify the points increase.

As a side note though, you mentioned terminators. Most termies now are packing 3++ saves, so you really have to spam AP2 to do some damage making plasmas a better choice.

As far as losing models goes, marines usually don't care as they're packing a 3+ and IG usually don't care because they're IG and there's a million more where that came from. Very few armies have both a low model count and crappy save that would be needed to make the gets hot rule a severe detriment.

Mastershake wrote:
As far as losing models goes, marines usually don't care as they're packing a 3+ and IG usually don't care because they're IG and there's a million more where that came from. Very few armies have both a low model count and crappy save that would be needed to make the gets hot rule a severe detriment.

Regarding IG, this is not true in the least. If you lose 4 models to Gets Hot!, then you just lost almost 100 points' worth of your army. Similarly since IG plasma-carryers are going to be in competition with melta carriers, chucking plasma ham-fistedly into a list is certainly not a recipe for win.

That said, a judicious addition of plasma onto effective carrier units (Inquisitor + Retinue, Inquisitorial Storm Troopers, CCS + medic or CCS + carapace armor) can create a useful niche unit capable of dealing with multiple threats. I take six plasma guns in my IG list and find value against MEQs, Terminators, and MCs. It should be noted, however, that you should never take plasma if you have inadequate melta coverage. You can create a Take-All-Comers list without plasma, to do so without melta is much, much harder. Given a choice between 10 meltaguns and 6 plasma guns or 16 meltaguns, I would take melta+plasma. Given a choice between 10 meltaguns or 16 plasmaguns, I would take the meltaguns.

Plasma is not obsolete, it is just difficult for certain armies (Chaos, for example) to find enough effective plasma carriers without critically weakening their melta coverage.

i find it very useful still, even though i use it less on the squad level. i find myself using it more on vehicles, Executioners and sponsons.
i like it in the Squad level with the Inquisitors retinue. and the occasional Vet squad. i personally don't like them in CCS.

Regarding IG, this is not true in the least. If you lose 4 models to Gets Hot!, then you just lost almost 100 points' worth of your army. Similarly since IG plasma-carryers are going to be in competition with melta carriers, chucking plasma ham-fistedly into a list is certainly not a recipe for win.

In order to lose 4 models to overheating, they've all had a chance to shoot i.e. will likely make their points back at least partially on the way down. The attitude that you've somehow lost alot of points to plasma overheat is overshadowed by the fact that IG has BS4 plasmas available in enough quatity that you can usually do far more damage than you take short of improbably bad rolling. Only rarely have I felt like plasmas have died without at least earning their keep and in most cases they can earn it in spades.

The problem isn't that plasma guns have become worse than what they were in 4th ed, the problem is Vehicles are much more popular in 5th edition. Against IG, space marines, or CSM meltas are far more useful. There are just too many armored targets that need cracking to deal with plasma.

If Nids become popular then plasma may become popular again. None of their T6 MC have an invo against ranged shots, so rapid firing 2 plasmas is far more useful than 1 melta when attempting to melt bugs. The only advantage meltas have is against multi wound T4 bugs, but in every case of t4 multi wound bugs a missile launcher works just as good as a melta.

Nids are doing their best to effect the meta away from melta. melta, against warriors aside, are less useful overall against all Nids, be they Mawlocs/Trygons needing a double plasma tap to heavily wound them when they show up in your face, or the double range against walking MCs.

plasma is still definitely worth is. Terminators, once they are out of their LR ride, light armoured vehicles that get too close and anything else that isn't a vehicle out is a better target for plasma than melta.

What I found interesting is that the price of the two guns are different. Seems like a hold over from 4th edition where the cost should have been different. I think in 5th edition they should be the same cost.

Dainty Twerp wrote:

What I found interesting is that the price of the two guns are different. Seems like a hold over from 4th edition where the cost should have been different. I think in 5th edition they should be the same cost.

This. It's like rock-paper-scissors. Plasma is better against terminators, but Meltaguns can blow up the Landraider they're inside. They seem equally effective to me but at different roles, which means I'd expect the same cost. The 'Gets Hot' rule is the thing keeping the Plasma Gun from being worth 15 points compared to a 10 point melta. Without Gets Hot, plasma'd be maybe 50% better, but with a 17% not to fire and to possibly hurt your own guy, plus meaning one less landraider-destroying gun, it's just not 50% better.

I'm Basically an all Plasma Cannon army. So I can tell you they are the best thing ever! Melta guns may be able to toast a Termi, but a plasma cannon can dispatch a pretty sizeable portions of squads.

Something worth pointing out is that whether you go with a Plasma Gun or a Melta Gun depends on the unit they're mounted on.

I Recently added combi-plasma to some of my Terminators, I'm making more. Transports, The big bugs, Terminators, even meqs all drop after plasma shots. Amazing.