Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So, I have finally purchased the codex and taken a look at the list and have come up with this. It's probably terrible but I wanted to get something out there and start tweaking before I purchase any models.

CCS
4 plasma guns [110]

PCS1
power fist
4 flamers [65]

SQD1
plasma gun [65]

SQD2
plasma gun [65]

PCS2
power fist
4 flamers [65]

SQD1
plasma gun [65]

SQD2
plasma gun [65]

Veteran Squad 1
2 meltaguns
Demolitions doctrine
Chimera w/ extra armor [190]

Veteran Squad 1
2 meltaguns
Demolitions doctrine
Chimera w/ extra armor [190]

2 Heavy Weapons Squads
missile launchers [180]

Heavy Weapons Squad
lascannons [110]

3 Sentinels
autocannons [120]

Hellhound [130]

LRBT
lascannon [165]

LRBT
lascannon [165]

1750 exactly. all constructive comments and suggestions are welcomed!

get rid of the powerfists
give the vets 3 meltas each
give the CCS meltas instead of plasma, or get a medipack and 3 plasmaguns
drop the Demo doctrine x 2 and get the CCS a Chimera
and it might not be a bad idea to drop a Sentinel in favor of a chimera for one of the PCS squads.

I think your list isn't too bad for your first one and can actually do quite well.

Do you have certain army types/lists that you play against on a regular basis? Certain units and weapon types are better against different enemy units/lists.

If you want a take all comers list, your list may have some holes in it. However, take advice with a grain of salt. All of us (myself included) tend to advise folks to take units and equipment types that suit our personal playing styles. Some like a lot of skimmers, some like a lot of melta guns, and others favor a lot of armor.

My advice is to consider Sly Marbo, a commissar in one line squad per infantry platoon, putting heavy weapons in line squads instead of in heavy weapon squads, and maybe some type of barrage weapon. Your list may have trouble against horde hand-to-hand armies though you have a good selection of multi-purpose weapons and flamers. That may save you against Tyranid and Ork hordes.

I'm also not a fan of plasma guns in the current codex due to a poor cost/benefit ratio. The points cost is too high (15 points) and I can arm two troopers with special weapons (one melta and one grenade launcher or flamer) for the price of one plasma gun. The plasma gun is also the only special weapon that can kill its firer.

The Chimeras for CCS and PCS help to keep them alive so that they can continue to give orders. Not everyone uses them, but I do.

Many players will recommend skimmers. I'm not in that crowd so I'll leave it to them to explain how useful Valks and Vendettas can be.

All command sections need a chimera. 3 squadded sentinels is not a good idea. Get rid of them in favour of chimeras or carapace for plasma CCS. BS3 plasma guns never ever. Take flamers/grenade launchers + autocannons/missile launchers. No power fists needed. Vets need 3 meltas and demolitions in not a good idea since they will not assault out of chimera with their meltabombs. Chimera doesnt need extra armour i think. Other than that you are good to go.

There is not a lot I can add that people haven't already mentioned.

I don't think there is anything wrong with 3 scout sentinels, get them out flanking and they can cause some nice problems especially if you have something scary keeping your opponents attention.

Missile Launchers I'm not a big fan of them, they are a jack of all trades weapon. For the same price you get a mortar and an autocannon which will do the same job but better. Mortar is the same a frag missile except you don't need line of sight and it pins, AC is one less strength than the Krak missile but you get two shots with it. If you want if for killing anything other than transports, the LasC again is better

Consider Exchanging the Plasma Guns in the squads with a Grenade Launcher + an Autocannon
That comes in for the same points, but you add more relieable weapons (BS3 Plasma is likely to miss or kill itself)

Use Plasma in the CCS (3Plasma+Medic) or in Veteran Squads (preferably with 4+Armor Save) to increase the Accuracy (BS4) and reduce the overheat wounds (either with a FnP or better Armor Save)

The Power fists will most likely never swing at all, since only 4 ablative wounds is not enough because all enemies strike before you do with your I1 Fist.

Personally I like the Demolitions Docrine =) if you have the points, keep it. a driveby shooting with 3 Meltaguns and a Demo Charge will wreck some havoc ^^
But drop the Extra Armor on the Chimeras, it's too expensive.

Like SpankHammer III i'm not a big fan of Missle Launchers either, they are the jack of all trades, master of none weapons in the Heavy Weapons list.
The Autocannon is as flexible and has a shot more, the Lascannon has more punch against high AV.

If you replace the MLs with ACs you should have the points for adding a hull Multimelta to the Hellhound, which makes it more flexible, since you can only shoot 1 weapon when you move, and when there is no infantry to burn, it can crack vehicles as well.

Thanks for all of the great replies and advice! I will do some tweaking to the list and try to get something posted later in the week.

As for opponents, there's the usual variety of marines, two bugs players, two chaos and one other IG.

From the sounds of it your going to need an all comers list.

Remember the key elemets.

Anti horde
Anti MEQ
AP2
Armour 10 -12
Armor 12 - 14

look forward to your new list

Missile launchers has one advantage: AP3 = it can kill a MEQ (75 percent of armies).

Mortars suck. They will not do anything most of the time. AC is universally crap but we all love it and use it.

I like missile launchers+flamers for infantry squads. Might seem wierd but is useful against everything. (copied default tac loadout? xD)

Yeah but if your looking for AP3 your better off using tanks than a single shot weapon on a BS3 trooper.

Sort of know what you mean about the AC, its only really good at killing transports and orks.

Mortars do suck, but no less than a blast from a ML. Plus they pin, you don't need line of sight and they are cheap.

So here goes version two:

CCS: [230]
3 plasma guns
medi-pack
carapace armor
master of ordinance
chimera

PCS1: [105]
4 flamers
chimera

SQD1: [65]
flamer
power weapon

SQD2: [110]
flamer
commissar
2 power weapons

*these will combine to benefit from the commissar's special rules and form a decent assault unit.

PCS2: [105]
4 flamers
chimera

SQD1: [65]
grenade launcher
autocannon

SQD2: [65]
grenade launcher
autocannon

VET1: [155]
3 meltas
chimera

VET2: [155]
3 meltas
chimera

Hellhound: [145]
multi-melta

LRBT1: [165]
lascannon

LRBT2: [165]
lascannon

This brings me to 1530 and leaves me with quite a few points to spend. I am a bit overwhelmed by the sheer number of choices and would appreciate some advice on what would benefit this list the most. Thanks!

Perhaps a Demolisher for that fresh "stomp the Terminators" feeling?

Perhaps some heavy weapons in the blob squad so they have something to do until the enemy closes in?

Or maybe a PBS in a Chimera?

Oh, I forgot about Vendettas!

Just before you start changing your list and the models you end up buying, heed my advice:

Almost every unit in the Imperial Guard codex can be better then the others in certain circomstances, if you do the math and use them correctly. For owning a tons of different models and remaking my list every week, let me tell you that it almost all work out in the end ''as long as you keep it cheap''. Wich is, almost all our units, when taken strip naked (or with special weapons at the least) can be made into an efficient army.

So, if you dont have winning as your only goal, i`d say you should decide what your want your army to look and feel like on the table. Both mechanised AND horde IG have topped tournaments.

Just as a general rule:

The Chimera (as the Razorback) are so cheap after GW generic 15pts slash on all new transport that they are worth their points by firepower alone. Indeed, you get more dakka and durability for your points with a stationary chimera then with heavy weapons teams or pretty much anything else (short of the hydra) even when its empty. And it act like a bunker too! So, its never a bad idea to add one. Except if you mind (like me) that your army will look like most other chimera-parking-lot IG army and decide to do otherwise.

- Becose of the said big price cut on transport and the simultaneous boost in their durability, lots of competitive players field everything in them. Vehicules have become widespread. For that reason, plasma is less tempting then before, and melta has become the big special weapon that you want to have. The only place i find plasma fun to field is in the Command squad, with the medic, as only then can you justify the 20pts models that fry themselves. But i only do it becose i love plasmaguns. In my hearth, i know melta would work just as well. Just sayin tho, about your command squad: It look fine, its a nice stationnary command squad (place it well!). But in a chimera, they are really well protected. The carapace armor might not see much use before close combat. And if a last resort close combat unit is what you want, then the plasma will prevent you to go out, shoot and charge. You'll always end up killing more shooting from inside the chimera then charging with them. So, id say: either make a squad that can get out of the transport, shoot 4 meltas and charge with carapace, or one that can shoot plasma without the carapace.

-GW like to sell their new overpriced models, so the vendetta and the valkyries are underpriced for what they do. They are seriously overpowering. I only take one (vendetta) out of principle, but they are worth their points, even more then the rest of the IG codex.

- General orders are nice. REALLY nice. Especially to anti-tank squads, they basically allow them to be twin-linked one time out of two. When the troops requirement are no problems, you might want to check if you would not rather have a chimera with a second command squad in it. The squad is made of veterans that can take 4 special weapons, and pretty cheap too (50 points for a 3 wound model with a refractor field, 4 Vets with special AND 2 more order per turn?). Both are good, and you always need bodies. But i'd switch one Veteran, Chimera, 3 Melta (155) squad for a Command Squad, Chimera, 4 Melta (145) and use saved points to buy more corpses (i mean, guardsmens) for that close combat squad.

Add Missile launchers to your combined squads, and a Commissar with Power weapon to platoon 2(75 points)

Get a PBS in a Chimera (165 points)

Drop the MoO(can't fire while riding in the Chimera anyway)

brings you to 1740, add a Power weapon to a Sgt: 1750

Tweaked again:

CCS1: [165]
4 meltaguns
carapace
chimera

ELITE1: PBS [165]
10 psykers, chimera

PCS1: [105]
4 flamers
chimera

SQD1: [85]
flamer, power weapon, meltabombs, missile launcher

SQD2: [130]
commissar
flamer, 2 x power weapons, meltabombs, missile launcher

SQD3: [85]
flamer, power weapon, meltabombs, missile launcher

PCS2: [105]
4 flamers
chimera

SQD1: [65]
grenade launcher, autocannon

SQD2: [65]
grenade launcher, autocannon

VET1: [155]
3 x meltaguns, chimera

Hellhound [145]
multimelta

Vendetta [130]

LRBT [165]
lascannon

LRBT [165]
lascannon

comes in at 1730. any suggestions for the last 20 points?

Personally I don't like Missile launchers but when push comes to shove its your list.

Archimus: The second CCS is a fantastic idea, can not believe i've never thought about it. I usually end using vets.

20 points could get you a pair of dozer blades, keeps those chimeras trucking. Oh i'd drop the carpace on the CCS, why give it to them if they're in a chimera

what is Platoon 1's job anyway? Are they assault speed bump or giant gun-line? You are paying either 45 points on missile launchers you might fire once, or 55 points on Power weapons and flamers you may never get to(and never want to) use.

And just what the heck are the melta bombs for? you have 7 meltaguns in 2 Chimeras, 2 AV14 lascannons, a vendetta, 2 Autocannons, and 3 Missile launchers; you do not need meltabombs on a 30 man infantry blob(especially if said squad is carrying your heavy weapons)

that leaves you with 80-90 points left over; enough for another Infantry squad.

Kommissar Kel wrote:what is Platoon 1's job anyway? Are they assault speed bump or giant gun-line? You are paying either 45 points on missile launchers you might fire once, or 55 points on Power weapons and flamers you may never get to(and never want to) use.

And just what the heck are the melta bombs for? you have 7 meltaguns in 2 Chimeras, 2 AV14 lascannons, a vendetta, 2 Autocannons, and 3 Missile launchers; you do not need meltabombs on a 30 man infantry blob(especially if said squad is carrying your heavy weapons)

that leaves you with 80-90 points left over; enough for another Infantry squad.

I can see one use for the melta bombs. Every SM army in the local tournaments takes one or two dreadnoughts. They tend to drop pod right on top of enemy lines (yes, no one uses DH allies - inq, 2 mystics - around here). In CC, a few melta bombs might come in handy against those dreadnoughts. We also might start seeing some Kans and Dreds now that the plastic kits are out. On the other hand a 30 man blob squad with a commissar is going to tarpit one or two enemy walkers for the rest of the game so the melta bombs are a bit moot.

JB wrote:I can see one use for the melta bombs. Every SM army in the local tournaments takes one or two dreadnoughts. They tend to drop pod right on top of enemy lines (yes, no one uses DH allies - inq, 2 mystics - around here). In CC, a few melta bombs might come in handy against those dreadnoughts. We also might start seeing some Kans and Dreds now that the plastic kits are out. On the other hand a 30 man blob squad with a commissar is going to tarpit one or two enemy walkers for the rest of the game so the melta bombs are a bit moot.

Dreads that pod in cannot assault that turn anyway... Shoot them in the face with all those heavy weapons.

crouching lictor wrote:Tweaked again:

CCS1: [165]
4 meltaguns
carapace
chimera

ELITE1: PBS [165]
10 psykers, chimera

PCS1: [105]
4 flamers
chimera

SQD1: [85]
flamer, power weapon, meltabombs, missile launcher

SQD2: [130]
commissar
flamer, 2 x power weapons, meltabombs, missile launcher

SQD3: [85]
flamer, power weapon, meltabombs, missile launcher

PCS2: [105]
4 flamers
chimera

SQD1: [65]
grenade launcher, autocannon

SQD2: [65]
grenade launcher, autocannon

VET1: [155]
3 x meltaguns, chimera

Hellhound [145]
multimelta

Vendetta [130]

LRBT [165]
lascannon

LRBT [165]
lascannon

comes in at 1730. any suggestions for the last 20 points?

Personally when it comes to command squads i use a regimental standard, vox, and a medic. The vox is needed as are voxes on all squads so you can re-roll orders, the medic is needed to keep your command squad alive longer, and the regimental standard is possibly the most important because it allows all your men within 12" to re-roll morale and pinning checks keeping a lot of your men from running off the board.

Your leman russ are good but usually i also take a demolisher too in a list with that many points. I prefer your army with several veteran squads with meltaguns in transports, several vendettas, or 2-3 kasrkin squads with meltaguns that can be deepstriked behind enemy vehicles for that nice vehicle kill.

I also hate autocannons because they suck since 5th edition really messed up glancing hits. Rockets are better but you may as well just scratch off rockets and autocannons and go lascannons because they're 15 pts more than rockets, they have higher strength, and are ap 2. Grenade launchers also suck and i never use them.

If you want close combat squads take a priest and add them to a penal legionniare squad or a techpriest and servitor squad. A techpriest squad is the least expected melee unit your enemies will be thinking of. The techpriest and up to 5 servitors each have one str 8 power weapon attack from servo-arms and the techpriest has a couple power weapon attacks and when you add the priest's re-rollable to hits in the first assault including his eviscerator it can be a pretty nasty unit that doesn't cost too many points. Penal legionnaires can also be fun but i'd recommend veterans more.

10 psykers are fine against enemies. Good at making assault termies run away from a fight or making necrons head for the hills after a few kills.

Could use another vendetta or something.

I wouldn't use just one hellhound. I've heard good things about banewolfs though i've never used them myself. I'd actually prefer to use a couple collossuses but if you want to use a couple banewolfs instead of the hellhound that'd work much better.

Medics are not needed when you are in a chimera.

Vox's eat up points fast.

1 Regimental standard is < a commissar, in functionality not points.

Auto cannons far from suck, the 2 shots give them versatility, and increase the chances of getting a penetrating hit, and most transports(save seprents and chimeras) are damaged on at least a 4+, penetrated on a 5+

Grenade Launchers are one of the best special weapons for line units, right behind Flamers in Close Combat Squads. The Krak grenades let them threaten MCs and a Blast AP6 Lasgun is awesome.

The hellhound works in this list due to target saturation, and a 24"+template Heavy Flamer is awesome vs cover

Yeah but in most cases i don't care if a squad of my guys dies or runs away because the rest of the squads can shoot at the squad assaulting me. That's why i don't put a commissar in each squad becaus it just makes them stubborn with the same leadership and sometimes execution. Also with a regimental standard as long as you keep guys near a 12" area of the standard they get to re-roll all morale and pinning tests and that's great for just 15 pts. It's pretty much what i need in my army and fits my tactics well.

I don't see why voxes are bad. In a game without creed it's needed. You can re-roll for orders which is actually really helpful in a decent sized infantry list.

I'm not really a fan of autocannons. I prefer rockets and lascannons. Even then though meltaguns are better but the whole veterans with meltaguns in transports is best or kasrkin with meltaguns.

I see a regimental standard as a close combat kit, and in a Melta squad in a Chimera you do not want to lose a Melta for rules you cannot use(there is no caveat that the standard works in a chimera).
The reason I say Commissars are better is that they;
A) up the base LD to 9
B) provide a re-roll
C) add a body to the squad they are in

Voxes aren't bad they just eat up a lot of points, depending on how big the army is Creed and Kell do it better(LD10 to the receiving squad), also Kell adds 2 more "Look out sir, argh!" wounds.

Missile launchers and Lascannons have their place, they are just more expensive choices.

Uh yeah but commissars make a squad that gets assaulted in melee stand for another round. During your turn your enemy will have that squad tied up and then at the end of your turn when they finish the assault and destroy that squad they'll just run up to another squad and repeat the whole process over again.

Guardsmen aren't meant to stand up to a lot of melee. That's why i expect them to die fast and let them. Afterwords i take several squads and fire into the squad that melee'd and killed that one squad. Guard has numbers so i can keep doing that and the enemy will run out before i do.

There are many ways to prevent getting assaulted(one of them is to assault yourself)

Yeah but with guard against many armies that could just be giving your enemy a crapload of killpoints. If you don't throw in enough guard then you could lose a battle and fall back although i suppose that's where your commissars come in with being stubborn and execution. That could be a good tactic i suppose. It's just i like the way i handle it. It works for me.