1850 Shooty Marines need some final tweaks...

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**Gornall**

I am trying to finish up this 1850 list:

HQ
Librarian with Null Zone and Avenger

Troops
Tactical Squad with Flamer, ML, Rhino
Tactical Squad with Flamer, ML, Rhino
Tactical Squad with Flamer, PC, and Razorback

Elite
Dreadnought with MM/HF and DCCW
Dreadnought with MM/HF and DCCW
Dreadnought with TLAutocannon x2

Fast Attack
MM Attack Bike Squadron (2)
Landspeeder Squadron with MM/HF (2)
Landspeeder Squadron with HB and TML (2)

Heavy
Predator with Autocannon and Lascannon Sides
Predator with Autocannon and Lascannon Sides

This leaves me with 110 points to spend and I'm not sure what to put it into. I was thinking something like a Dakka Pred, TFC, Whirlwind (haven't tried one yet), or maybe even another Libby. I also thought about some WH Stormtrooper allies with Plasma to help deal with anything that is about to hit my lines, but I'd have to scrape up another 15 points. Any thoughts?

**Snikkyd**

I'd say the dakka Pred is the best option.

**Grey Templar**

you could add another Landspeeder typhoon and another attack bike.

That or another Dakka pred would be my choice

**Gornall**

How about this... Dakka Pred, Lascannon for a Tactical Squad, a Plasma Gun for the PC squad, and DB for the Razorback (It tends to house the Libby, so I try to bury it in terrain to keep it safe)?

**pdawg517**

You could drop 5 pts and pick up a vindi possibly. They soak up a ton of fire which keeps your other units alive. If your opponent ignores it, drop the big blast

**Gornall**

That's not a bad idea. I could downgrade the Razorback to a Rhino for 5 points and pick it up. I'd almost have to drop the PC down to MM/ML though, as a Vindy without a dozer blade isn't really a Vindy at all.

However, would a Vindy make it too much of a <24" list?

**Shrubs**

Looks solid. One question: what is the librarian going to do?

**tokugawa**

Since your Dreads stand in the gunline, make them riflemen.

**Shrike78**

Gornall wrote:That's not a bad idea. I could downgrade the Razorback to a Rhino for 5 points and pick it up. I'd almost have to drop the PC down to MM/ML though, as a Vindy without a dozer blade isn't really a Vindy at all.

However, would a Vindy make it too much of a <24" list?

There's nothing wrong with having a list focused at the 24" range marker. however, If you're going to do this, then I'd actually try to focus on this.

Basically I don't think that a lone vindicator would help this list too much.

**Grey Templar**

he's already got 2 predators and 3 dreds. a vindicator might get lost in all that armor and the dreds will be a more immediate threat as they have a lower armor value and longer range.

**Gornall**

I may have to try it both ways. My problem with the Vindicator is that I have the MM ABs, the MM/HF Landspeeders, and 2 Dreads with a max range of 24". TBH, the Dakka Pred and some more shooty upgrades might fit the theme better, as once my opponent is within 24", I don't have the counter attack to go toe-to-toe. However, the Vindicator can move and fire, which the Dakka Pred can't.

**Leenus**

I'm a sucker for vulcan. Twinlinking all of those multi meltas and flamers is awesome and he's a pretty great fighter for the points.

If you're against him, I do think the vindicator would be helpful, because he stops your opponent from clumping up and punishes him when he does.

**imweasel**

I don't like mm/hf dreads unless you are podding them.

Not a bad list.

I would drop the mm/hf dreads for 2 more rifleman dreads to go with the one you have.

That's 20 points.

Then add one more typhoon speeder for 90pts.

Total is the 110pts you have left.

That gives you a total of 8ml's, 4 lc's, 12 tl-ac shots and 4 ac shots. A PC and razorback for good looks.

You have 4 fast moving mm's for heavy armor with 2 hvy flamers for good looks as well.

That's shooty.

**Gornall**

@imweasel: My meta sees a lot of LRs, so having only 2 units that can reasonably threat a LR doesn't work very well for me. That and I think the MM/HF Dreads at least give me a limited amount of CC to tarpit/kill off depleted nasties. I think you're right about the pods though, so here's what I'm looking at now:

HQ
Libby with Nullzone and Avenger

Troops
Tactical Squad with Flamer, ML, and Rhino
Tactical Squad with Flamer, ML, and Rhino
Tactical Squad with Flamer, PC, and Razorback

Elites
Dreadnought with MM/HF and Drop Pod
Dreadnought with MM/HF and Drop Pod
Dreadnought with TLAutocannon x2 and Drop Pod (empty to allow the other Dreads to hit on T1)

Fast
Attack Bike Squad (2) with MMs
Landspeeder Squad (2) with MM/HF
Landspeeder Squad (2) with HB/TML

Heavy
Predator with Autocannon and Lascannon Sides
Predator with Autocannon and Lascannon Sides

I think this army will actually be pretty mean, as I can drop 2-3 Dreads right in my opponents face, off a flank, or just midfield to get in on the action sooner. This will give me some flexibility in trying to influence my opponent's actions. If I expect him to try and bum-rush me, I drop them on a flank and force him to hold back something to deal with them, so his army has to come at me staggered. Against stuff such as BW-deffrolla/LR Rush, etc, it gives me the opportunity to try and get off melta shots before he gets into kill range. Against super shooty armies, I can use them to buy time or even try to alpha-strike stuff I couldn't normally get to such as Manticores hiding in the back.

**imweasel**

Good reply. I got nothing else.

**Shrubs**

The Libby is joining the 5 marines in the razorback?

I've played with the predator with side las for the first time yesterday and I wasn't impressed. Not mobile at all and not very versatile, so completely dependent on los.. But you probably have better experiences with them.

Looks like a solid list though.

**Gornall**

Yeah... He rides with them unless the other squads Combat Squad. Then he's better off in a Rhino to pop Avenger out the top.

The Preds do rely on good initial placement, but their ability to put wounds on MCs and smack transports at range is pretty huge. No AV10-12 vehicle wants to face 2 S7 and 2 S9 shots coming at it. Mine funnily enough has a habit of killing Oblits with the Autocannon more than the Lascannons.

**imweasel**

Shrubs wrote:The Libby is joining the 5 marines in the razorback?

I've played with the predator with side las for the first time yesterday and I wasn't impressed. Not mobile at all and not very versatile, so completely dependent on los.. But you probably have better experiences with them.

Looks like a solid list though.

Deployment is key for the ac/las pred. Don't be afraid to stick em out there if you can flank them with other vehicles to give them cover on the long av 11 sides.